EDISON STANDARD “2 clip” MODEL “A” EDISON–BELL patent plate

[zippy]

It seems like there are few photos of the Edison standard "2 clip" model "A" with an Edison-bell patent plate on the internet. These kinds of machines can be found in the UK and Europe according to the article published in antique phonograph society (https://www.antiquephono.org/edison-sta ... ate-notes/). It has the Edison-bell patent plate and the dealers tag. Does anyone in this group own one of these with the Edison-bell patent plate? I would love to know more about them.

[martinola]

Nice machine, zippy. I like the dealer tag on the lid. Quite an early one without the tension screws on the bearing ends. While I don't have one of these personally, I have noted at least two variants of the Edison-Bell tag. This is the second one. (The first one reads:"THIS PHONOGRAPH IS LICENSED FOR USE ONLY WITHIN THE UNITED KINGDOM. ANY USE IN CONNECTION WITH AUTOMATIC OR SLOT DEVICE WILL BE DEEMED AN INFRINGEMENT OF THE LETTERS PATENT OF THE EDISON-BELL CONSOLIDATED PHONOGRAPH CO. LTD. UPON SALE, LEASE OR OTHER DISPOSITION OF THIS PHONOGRAPH, DUE NOTICE OF ABOVE CONDITIONS MUST BE GIVEN TO THE PURCHASER") You might get some better responses in the UK/European part of the forum. If you care to share the serial number, I'd love to add it to the data project.

Regards,
Martin

[tomb]

Here are a few pics of mine. It is getting late so I will keep it brief. It has an EB reproducer rebuilt by Medvid. Edison built blocks of them in the serial number range. Martinola has a good spread sheet to look at that has a enormous amount of information on it if you spend some time on it. Tom

[zippy]

Dear Martin and Tom,
Thank you both for the information. Martin, please find the attached photo of the serial number. Have you published the data from the project? If so, where can I find it?

[epigramophone]

From late 1898 until the expiry of the more important patents in early 1902, Edison Bell controlled the whole of the phonograph trade in Britain.
All dealers in cylinder playing machines could only operate legitimately if they were licensed by Edison Bell, and these machines bore plates stating that fact.

[Menophanes]

I once had a 'banner-front' Model A Standard with the same type of plate as Zippy's. Unfortunately I have no record of the serial number (possibly 'S102***'), but it had a push-pin to raise and lower the carrier-arm instead of the earlier lever; I believe this feature would date the machine to the spring of 1903. It must have been one of the last machines to bear the Edison-Bell plate, since according to Frow & Sefl the British company's franchise was terminated early in the same year.

Oliver Mundy.

[martinola]

I've poked around on my Data sheet this morning to get a better idea of how things went regarding the Edison Bell Standard models. (The ones made by the Edison Phonograph Works, as opposed to the post-1902 versions made by others.)

Although my article on Standard Patent Plates shows two versions, I've since noted that there are at least 3 versions of the Edison-Bell plate:

EB Plate Type 1:

(on #984) “THIS PHONOGRAPH IS LICENSED FOR USE ONLY WITHIN THE UNITED KINGDOM. ANY USE IN CONNECTION WITH AUTOMATIC OR SLOT DEVICE WILL BE DEEMED AN INFRINGEMENT OF THE LETTERS PATENT OF THE EDISON-BELL CONSOLIDATED PHONOGRAPH CO. LTD. UPON SALE, LEASE OR OTHER DISPOSITION OF THIS PHONOGRAPH, DUE NOTICE OF ABOVE CONDITIONS MUST BE GIVEN TO THE PURCHASER"

EB Plate Type 2:

(on #6306) "Licensed by The Edison-Bell Consolidated Phonograph Co., Ltd. For use except on the continent of Europe, Canada & U.S.A. Not to be used in connection with an Automatic or Slot device."

EB Plate Type 3:

(on #7633) "Licensed by The Edison-Bell Consolidated Phonograph Co., Ltd. Not to be used in connection with an Automatic or Slot device. Type 2 "STANDARD"


I've noted some intermixing of plate types where an older plate is used after a newer plate had been introduced. Also, I suspect the earliest Standards exported from the US didn't have the EB plate. (My #873 from the UK doesn't have one.)

Although you can get a version of the Edison Standard Data Project's excel file at the APS website, I haven't updated it lately due to my inability to do ANYTHING in a timely manner. I've attached my latest version here: (George P - if you feel like using this as the update you have my blessing)

Edison_Std_Data_07_06_20.xls

(1.39 MiB) Downloaded 68 times

Oliver - your late Banner machine sounds like an oddity. If I'm understanding you right, that machine had the button lift which was the Edison Phonograph Works' "work-around" to be able to sell machines in competition with the Edison-Bell Co. There has been mention in the Frow book that Edison-Bell, at points, acquired "grey market" Edison machines after they severed ties. I assume that this was to fill gaps in early production of the "Knock-off" Standards that they sold later. I'm sure that others may have a more accurate knowledge of those events.

Zippy - check out #9770- it's your machine's twin!

Tom - thanks for sharing yours!

Regards,
Martin

[tomb]

I was showing a picture of where the gear cover attaches to the plate in the back. It had two holes drilled and could accept either a straight rear cover ( which was standard on square boxes ) or a gear cover with the leg pointing out. It had straight one on it. My phonograph plays well. Tom

[Menophanes]

Oliver - your late Banner machine sounds like an oddity. If I'm understanding you right, that machine had the button lift which was the Edison Phonograph Works' "work-around" to be able to sell machines in competition with the Edison-Bell Co. There has been mention in the Frow book that Edison-Bell, at points, acquired "grey market" Edison machines after they severed ties. I assume that this was to fill gaps in early production of the "Knock-off" Standards that they sold later. I'm sure that others may have a more accurate knowledge of those events

Martin, thank you for your comments and for the immensely valuable database. I find that I already had a version of this, but it was three years old and I am therefore very glad to have the update.

I bought my machine for five pounds in about 1962 and kept it for nearly fifty years. I doubt if anyone would have either known or cared enough to modify it in those days, so that if its specification was indeed non-original this must have been done early in its history. The reproducer, which came with it, was an ordinary Model C with no side-arm. The Edison-Bell plate (your type 3) was on the front of the case, overlapping the banner. It is quite possible that the serial number began 103 rather than 102; I see that you record examples in the 103000 range which have the lift button. My understanding has always been that Edison-Bell did not introduce their own machines (using the Standard and Gem names) until 1904, but I am open to correction on this.

Oliver Mundy.

[epigramophone]

To settle a long standing legal dispute, Edison Bell agreed in May 1904 not to use the word "Edison" without the word "Bell", but they were still put on the Suspended List by Edison which prevented them from obtaining machines from the American factory.

Cut off from their former source of supply, Edison Bell immediately made plans to build their own machines, and by 1905 were marketing Edison Bell Gem and Standard phonographs. The company stated that these were soon to be supplemented by a new Edison Bell Home.