Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Louder?

Discussions on Talking Machines & Accessories
Dave D
Victor IV
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Location: Port Huron, MI

Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Louder?

Post by Dave D »

So, whenever I demonstrate a cylinder phonograph at the museum, I like to slip the rubber connector off the reproducer to show the difference. I know that the horn does not really increase the volume, but you have to admit, it does seem to do just that.

I usually tell people that it is like when you cup your hand near your ear things sound louder, but they really aren't.

Is there a simple, easy to understand way to explain what horns do for the volume, or perceived volume as it may be.
Thanks!
Dave D

larryh
Victor IV
Posts: 1601
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by larryh »

My layman's guess is that the horn lets the sound develop and increase as it reaches the outer edges of the horn and into the room. They recorded the acoustic records in the reverse, capture the sound and then it increases due to the smaller opening at the recording head, without the horn neither would happen.

User avatar
mick_vt
Victor I
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:09 pm
Personal Text: Foxtrotaholic
Location: Central Vermont

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by mick_vt »

It does amplify, it's to do with pressure through the cone in exactly the same way a trumpet or tuba amplifies the sound of the mouthpiece into something very loud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_loudspeaker


Edit: yes my use of the word "amplify" was technically wrong - it transforms the wave into something with greater acoustic power :roll:
Last edited by mick_vt on Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ChuckA
Victor III
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:32 pm
Personal Text: Learn from the mistakes of others - You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Location: South Eastern PA
Contact:

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by ChuckA »

mick_vt wrote:It does amplify, it's to do with pressure through the cone in exactly the same way a trumpet or tuba amplifies the sound of the mouthpiece into something very loud

The horn doesn't amplify.
Amplification suggests that there is more power at the output of a device than there was at the input of the device.


If you are interested in horn theory and how they work read the chapter on horns in "Modern Gramophones" here:

https://archive.org/details/ModernGramo ... 9/mode/2up

This book was published in 1929, not an easy book to find but a must have for your library.


Chuck

Online
User avatar
Inigo
Victor Monarch
Posts: 4576
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by Inigo »

The horn simply transforms the (high intensity * small air mass) at the throat into a (lower intensity * greater air mass) at the flare. I believe it is in the Victor & victrola page where they explain this phenomenon using an example with kicking pool balls, very illustrative.
In fact, the horn has an energy loss along its length, as does any energy path.
If you make a narrow and long paper cone with a small flare and play your records thru it, you'll notice how intense the sound is in the axis of the horn, almost unbearable. But it cannot move the air in the room. The trick is the exponential horn. Narrow and long at the start, it distributes the energy at a slow pace, to a wider mass of air as the waves advance along it. Once more mass of air has acquired the vibratory energy, the flare can be expanded at a higher rate. This happens at each infinitesimal slice of the horn perpendicular to the central axis.
The best one, the tractrix horn, expands until the flare opens at 90 degrees at each side, forming a plane baffle from which the sound radiates into the room.
Inigo

User avatar
startgroove
Victor III
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:01 pm
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by startgroove »

"An acoustic horn converts large pressure variations with a small displacement area into a low pressure variation with a large displacement area and vice versa. It does this through the gradual, often exponential increase of the cross sectional area of the horn."

"The horn serves to improve the coupling efficiency between the speaker driver and the air. The horn can be thought of as an "acoustic transformer" that provides impedance matching between the relatively dense diaphragm material and the less-dense air. The result is greater acoustic output power from a given driver."

From Wikipedia

Dave D
Victor IV
Posts: 1308
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Location: Port Huron, MI

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by Dave D »

Thank you for trying to help me understand this.
Dave D

User avatar
Governor Flyball
Victor II
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by Governor Flyball »

A good analogy to an acoustical horn is an electrical transformer. You feed the transformer with a high pressure (voltage) and low current and it is transformed to low pressure and high current (large displacement). Both horns and transformers are lossy but pretty efficient.

User avatar
maginter
Victor II
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:40 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by maginter »

For all you techno geeks..... Here is the theory for the Exponential horn (Orthophonic) that will give you some background.

https://www.grc.com/acoustics/an-introd ... theory.pdf

Yea, it is overkill, but it is a good read.....

Mark
"The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine."
Nikola Tesla

User avatar
Curt A
Victor Monarch Special
Posts: 6851
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Personal Text: Needle Tins are Addictive
Location: Belmont, North Carolina

Re: Can Someone Explain How Horns Make The Music Sound Loude

Post by Curt A »

A simple explanation to people who express an "interest" is: "It just works"... :roll: I'm sure they're not looking for techno speak or horn theory.
Your demonstration of removing the connector and then replacing it is enough to show that it works. If anyone wants to go further, suggest pursuing a college degree in the science of sound theory... :lol:

Actually, print out the article that Mark (Maginter) posted and give it to them, that should be easy enough for anyone to understand... :? :lol:
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

Post Reply