The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

To start, the dummy here is me.

I have no experience with fibre needles, but I recently found, in a box of parts, a plain clear envelope with 103 fibre needles, as well as an Alto scissors-type cutter (which I imagine is quite common, so no need to post a picture of it here). On most of the needles the shaft is uniform all the way down (A), but on some it gets significantly thinner about halfway up, so it looks like a knife with a handle (B). A few are uniform but much shorter than the rest (C). I don't know if they started out looking like these or not, but since the examples are pretty uniform within each type, I suspect so. If anyone can tell me who made each one, I would be really interested to know.

So, I have many questions about this find: First, did people make their own fibre needles, or did they always buy them? If they made their own, what did they start with? Are fibre needles reusable? If so, how many times? Is the purpose of the cutters to make new needles, or sharpen used ones? If it's the latter, how often are you supposed to sharpen them? What is the proper way to do so? Why did/do people use fibre needles? What are the advantages and disadvantages of fibre vs. steel? And how does one properly position a fibre needle in a triangular Victor needle chock? In other words, what should the point look like hitting the record surface?

Here you go!

Long thin = softer volume
Short thick = louder volume
Round end = use on early round hole reproducers

Cheers, Bob S.

How many questions! And welcome to the marvelous world of fiber needles, in this case, the famous bamboo triangular needles.

Among all different types you apparently see, there's only one thing important. These needles are cut from the bamboo stick, in this triangular form, and if you look closely to them, they all have one side with the shiny and very hard outer shell of the bamboo.
This side is the one which plays the grooves. The triangular stick you'll see it's cut in a point; this point must be placed down, towards the record.
A thread wherre you can see the instruction leaflet for using bamboo needles.viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4410
You'll see there the most important information.

Since their invention, near 1906, many gramophone makers began to make the nedlechuck in the soundboxes with a triangular hole, so you could use these needles. But many others didn't, that's the reason of making some bamboo needles with the upper end shaped as a standard cylindrical needle, to be used in soundboxes that have the normal round needle hole in the chuck.

They are so useful and harmless to records (shellac, not vinylite) and their sound is strong and warm, very pleasant, as they filter out most of the hiss. Best is to play new records or in good shape. Some records are a bit rebel, and need to be learned to play with these needles, several attempts will fail, until the grooves are impregnated with the oily substance of the bamboo, or polished by the needles, so suddenly they will work. Worn records also don't go well, and will eat out the point of the needle before the side is ended.

Studying the shape of the point and your cutter, you'll discover how the needlepoint must be placed in the cutter to cut a new slice from the steeped point so you have a new fresh point.

Initially needles could be up to 1" long; you must insert them in the chucke of the soundbox so they protrude ½" or a bit less, like a standard needle. You'll find that you can play several sides until a strong music, a worn passage or simply the wearing out start to make it sound blurry, then you have to extract the needle and cut a fresh point. Other times the point will break in the middle of a record and play no more... it depends on the quality of the surface of the record. As you go on playing and cutting, the needle becomes shorter, so you have to insert it less and less, until it is too short to fit, then you discard it and take a new one.
The ones which are shorter may be from another brand, or that they have been already used and sharpened some times, so they are thus shorter. But if sufficient long, they still can be used.
Here you'll find a colleague that has gone very far in making his/her own tools for making bamboo needles. You'll find this info useful...
Instructions for making your own bamboo needles herein: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15173
I use to make my own needles, but I don't have such sophisticated tooling. I cut a bamboo stick with a saw, then with the cutter I make the needles out of the small cylinders by hand. The cutter is pressed against the bamboo and it will cut up to down in a simple shot.
I even am trying the inner parts of the bamboo that are normally discarded. They don't have the external shiny shell, but if the bamboo is hard and has straight good fibres, you'll find these also play records well, as long as they are cut very precisely, with the triangle limited by strong straight uninterrupted fibres forming a sharp line and a good point. Sometimes if they are not well cut, you have blunt edges, so you have to re-cut the triangle side to get sharp edges. As you try it you'll learn with a bit of attention and examining your produced needles with a magnifyer glass... It's funny. Of course you can buy and use the branded fibre needles made by professionals or NOS of gramophone brands. The advantage with these against steel needles is that if they are used it doesn't mind, as you can repoint them if they are long enough to be usable. Used steel needles must not be re-used.

There's the other world, that of the cylindrical cactus needle, but I'm not yet used to them, so others in the forum may illustrate you about them.

Just search for bamboo or fibre or fiber needles in the search feature of the forum... You'll have threads herein to read for hours about the opinions and experiences of all members, experiments, etc. Very interesting!

I don't use fiber needles myself, but I have advice for those who do who might live in a humid environment. Wash your records occasionally and play them with a steel needle once every year or two. I bought a batch of beautiful classical records that looked brand new. I went to play one with a steel needle and chunks of nasty looking stuff started coming out of the grooves. I immediately stopped playing it and washed the record. Let it dry overnight, stuff still coming out of the grooves. It was like running your hand through a rain gutter on your house in the fall. Washed the records again and finally the grooves were playing clean. But apparently the fibers in the grooves had absorbed humidity from the air at some point and got moldy. The surface of the record was badly pitted. The whole batch was like that.

I think it's a good idea to wash your records and run a steel needle through them once in a while to keep the grooves clean.

I started using bamboo fibre needles after I added an orthophonic Victrola 8-12 to my collection. The steel needles are categorized as loud, medium and soft tone. The loud tone needles playing orthophonic records, blasted me out of the room unless I closed the tone modifier doors. The soft tone needles weren't quite right either. The bamboo fibre needles sounded just right in my small study. I like that they don't damage the records. If you look closely at the point of the fibre needle after playing, you might see the gunk it cleans out. I just rub it off and play another disk. I keep steel needles for my older phonographs playing pre-electric records.

Just for future reference, and only because you asked, it is fibre needles, as you'll note is the spelling on all fibre needle packets.

And there's the cactus needle, now newly made by our colleague Orchorsol who owns the BCN brand and sells them new. As per testimonials herein, they seem to be superior to the bamboo triangular needles, easy to sharpen, and seem to be more keen on some records than bamboo, or better said : it seems that there are less records that are difficult to cactus than to bamboo.
I make my own bamboos, and have a supply for all my life. I only own one cactus needle, yet still I have to try it... I have an IM sharpener, but it is broken... Nevertheless, with steady hand, they can be sharpened with a sandpaper by hand.