The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Ok I am really new to phonographs and would like to ask all the more experienced members what is the difference between a home phonograph needle and a coin machine needle? I see that the coin phonograph needles sometimes have a jeweled point. Then you have the "permanent " needles too. I saw that some coin phonograph needles say not for home phonographs. Can anyone please explain this to me.

Hello and welcome,

To be clear are you are asking about needles for playing shellac 78 rpm records other than Edison Diamond Disc records?

For a completely answer your question you need to also say what phonograph you have that you wan to play record on. Like an early acoustic outside horn phonograph or a upright floor model or a later electric type with a horseshoe pickup or later electric with a lighter weigh tone arm.

Carlton Smith
Indianapolis, IN

Ok I have a small collection not interested in the Edison needles but I do have two Standards that are getting worked on. I hace a Colombia BZH, Pathé model VII, two Victor VV-IV, and my favorite a Victrola VV-X. I play mostly shellac records although I have some of the newer "unbreakable " ones. Thanks for everything.

The subject of correct needles is a complex one. For your Standards, and your Victrolas and other machines, the easiest answer would be to use steel needles, once for each record. Never use a jewel tip needle that is made for a coin phonograph on any acoustically recorded disc, or any shellac disc. That will prematurely wear out the recording. If you wish to play rare electrically recorded discs, I would recommend using thorn or bamboo needles. Those are easiest on the record. Never play vinyl (unbreakable) records on an acoustic phonograph. They are too soft and will likely be destroyed with one playing, and some machines have a hard time playing them through.

I'm not sure what you are asking... Where have you seen "Home" phonograph needles and "coin machine needles"? A picture would be great. In 40+ yrs. I have never seen those designations...

If you are talking about cylinder phonograph needles, they vary by the type of cylinders you want to play - 2 or 4 minute cylinders, but they are permanently attached to the corresponding 2/4 min. reproducers and are only changed when damaged. If you are talking about 78rpm disc record needles, they come in various types depending on whether you have Diamond Disc Edison records, lateral or vertical cut shellac records or later (40s-50s-60s-70s) vinyl or vinyl compound records.

Most early shellac records (1900-1930s) play with steel needles that are made for one use only and are lateral cut records. Pathé records and certain other brands have both lateral and vertical cut versions - vertical cut records use a sapphire stylus permanently mounted on a brass or bone shaft - these styli are permanent and can be used many times until worn out or damaged. Edison Diamond Disc records can only be played on an Edison Diamond Disc machine with a permanent diamond stylus that is permanently mounted in the reproducer - these records are vertical cut. Vertical cut records can be played on other phonographs as long as they have a reproducer that can be rotated to play vertical records, or a special adapter made to replace the normal lateral reproducer AND the correct stylus - either sapphire (round ball point) or diamond (sharp point). NO VERTICAL CUT RECORD SHOULD BE PLAYED WITH STEEL NEEDLES.

ALSO, NO LATE 40s, 50s, 60s or ANY vinyl records should be played on acoustic phonographs with steel needles and heavy reproducers. They should only be played on electric turntables with light weight cartridges.

I hope this addressed your questions.

I saw some needles on ebay that I never seen before. A good friend of mine gave me a Philco ruby needle to try out. Thanks again you guys are great.

Most references to phonographs and needles on this forum refer to early wind up acoustic phonographs. The needle packs that you posted are mostly for commercial 78 juke box "coin machines" and that is a different subject.

The statement "Do not use in Home phonograph", does not refer to an Edison "Home" phonograph, it just means they are not made for home use in a typical consumer type phonograph.

I tried the ruby needle and the surface noise was almost unnoticeable. It sounded really good. Just wondering if it's going to damage my records.

BigC wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:19 pm I tried the ruby needle and the surface noise was almost unnoticeable. It sounded really good. Just wondering if it's going to damage my records.

Yes, it will damage them. I would suggest going in & buying proper steel needles, and then try some fiber or thorn needles eventually to see how you like them.

Ok thanks for answering all my questions