Playing vinyl on a spring phonograph?

[antique1973]

A friend of mine tried using this sapphire needle on an XVI with
spring motor to play vinyl 33's. It keeps stopping the motor due to excess friction.
I was theorizing that this needle was created for use in acoustic machines
with electric motors, although the listing does not say that. Has anyone
tried to use such a needle? Thanks for any info.

eBay Item #350394315787

[gramophoneshane]

They were only meant for light weight electric pick-ups, and even then most designs will still chew out the grooves. Some are supposed to be for 78s and 33s, and those are the worst you could use. Some of them are designed specifically for 78s, and they're normally not as bad.
To play vinyl 78s on a wind-up machine, you're better off with trailer needles, but again these were really designed for electric pick-ups too.
I've found you really need to use a 4 spring motor to play 33s, but you can get away with playing 45s on a double spring usually.

And how do I know all this?
Well, this is the type of stuff you learn when you start collecting at the age of 13 lol.
Just be aware that once you play a 33 or 45 on an acoustic machine, you'll never be able to play it on a modern machine again.

[Wolfe]

It keeps stopping the motor due to excess friction.

Even if the motor was powerful enough to continue running, all that would happen would be to gouge out the record groove. Vinyl LP's and 45's were never designed to play under the kind of tracking pressure an acoustic machine is going to exert, whatever the stylus.

And even in a lightweight tonearm, that 1 mil tip would be fine for early mono records, but it's still too wide for stereo discs, and would likely damage them due to lack of vertical compliance.

[estott]

Definitely intended for 30's-40's-ish machines that still used needles secured with a thumbscrew- most had the screw coming out of the tip of the arm so needle orientation is important. These are useless in an acoustic machine.

[antique1973]

Thanks for clarifying this guys!

[transformingArt]

This might be a slightly off-topic, but sometimes I wonder how the Nimbus Prima Voce producers played records which the only known forms are Historic Masters vinyl pressings - maybe they used these kind of needles?

I have played couple of 45rpms on my VV J1-50 with fiber needles, and a 10-inch shellac Victor transcription disc with steel needles (the sound was good enough, although somewhat 'muffled'). But I never dared to play genuine vinyl LPs with acoustic machine after I failed my own experiment with a Cutner Solomon LP album. Even the fiber needles were too harsh for it.

Here's a YouTube video which shows a Elvis 45rpm is played on acoustic machine.
[youtubehq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQNe6OFS31Y[/youtubehq]

[Wolfe]

I wonder how the Nimbus Prima Voce producers played records which the only known forms are Historic Masters vinyl pressings

Nimbus used thorn needles for their stuff.

[Valecnik]

Antiques73, I'd suggest just not bothering.

Better to get a decent electric turntable and amp to play vinyl LPs. That's what they were meant to play on and the only way to get the optimal sound out of them.

Also as pointed out by others, and probably the most important point, you are likely to render the records unusable.

A heavy reproducer weighing 20-30 grams or more used on a vinyl record designed for a stylus tracking at 1.5 to 2 grams can't be good IMHO.

[antique1973]

Antiques73, I'd suggest just not bothering.

Better to get a decent electric turntable and amp to play vinyl LPs. That's what they were meant to play on and the only way to get the optimal sound out of them.

Also as pointed out by others, and probably the most important point, you are likely to render the records unusable.

A heavy reproducer weighing 20-30 grams or more used on a vinyl record designed for a stylus tracking at 1.5 to 2 grams can't be good IMHO.

I fully agree Bruce. My friend wanted to try it so I was just wondering if it
was possible. I use my Audio Technica exclusively for playing vinyl.

[phonojim]

Not a good thing to do to a 45. I would suggest devising a counterweight system to lighten the stylus pressure and using a more responsive reproducer, such as an Orthophonic.

Jim