Tinfoil substitute?

[JohnM]

I recently purchased a 1977 Goodwin Ive tinfoil Phonograph. I know that it’s been years since Rene Rondeau offered genuine tin foil of the correct gauge and that supply was bought-up. I placed an ad in the Yankee Trader section seeking tin foil, but have received no replies. Is it possible to use two (or more) layers of household aluminum foil as a substitute? I haven’t received the machine yet, so I’m not able to experiment.

[TinfoilPhono]

Heavy-duty aluminum foil will work, the main drawback is that it has a lot more surface noise than real tinfoil. I go into some detail about the differences among various foils on my website at this page: http://edisontinfoil.com/foils.htm

It definitely helps to wipe a thin layer of light oil over the aluminum foil surface if you go that route. That little bit of lubrication does somewhat reduce the loud, scratchy surface noise of the stylus scraping the hard aluminum.

The key to successful tinfoil recordings is in the adjustment of the stylus. It must be perfectly centered in the groove, and the depth has to be just right -- not too deep or it will tear the foil, not too shallow or the recording will be faint. Finding the sweet spot will take some trial and error but you'll be surprised how quickly you will become proficient at gauging that. A good loupe helps during setup. I always do my initial settings without foil on the mandrel, so I can get a very clear view of the position of the stylus and the groove. Start with the depth a bit on the shallow side and increase the depth in small increments as you experiment, until you find the ideal setting for maximum volume and clarity, without tearing it.

A well-made and properly-adjusted tinfoil phonograph should NOT require shouting at the top of your lungs to get good results. You need to speak distinctly, directly into the speaker, using strong chest tones. Slightly higher than normal volume is good, but there's no need to scream into it, as I see so often in videos. A horn held in the mouthpiece definitely helps both in recording and playback.

A bit of care during setup will go a long way toward making the experience enjoyable and even exciting. Whenever I demonstrate a tinfoil phonograph to a visitor with no experience in this realm, I blow people's minds. It's pretty amazing how excited some people get over the concept of recording sound on foil.

[Lucius1958]

Heavy-duty aluminum foil will work, the main drawback is that it has a lot more surface noise than real tinfoil. I go into some detail about the differences among various foils on my website at this page: http://edisontinfoil.com/foils.htm

It definitely helps to wipe a thin layer of light oil over the aluminum foil surface if you go that route. That little bit of lubrication does somewhat reduce the loud, scratchy surface noise of the stylus scraping the hard aluminum.

The key to successful tinfoil recordings is in the adjustment of the stylus. It must be perfectly centered in the groove, and the depth has to be just right -- not too deep or it will tear the foil, not too shallow or the recording will be faint. Finding the sweet spot will take some trial and error but you'll be surprised how quickly you will become proficient at gauging that. A good loupe helps during setup. I always do my initial settings without foil on the mandrel, so I can get a very clear view of the position of the stylus and the groove. Start with the depth a bit on the shallow side and increase the depth in small increments as you experiment, until you find the ideal setting for maximum volume and clarity, without tearing it.

A well-made and properly-adjusted tinfoil phonograph should NOT require shouting at the top of your lungs to get good results. You need to speak distinctly, directly into the speaker, using strong chest tones. Slightly higher than normal volume is good, but there's no need to scream into it, as I see so often in videos. A horn held in the mouthpiece definitely helps both in recording and playback.

A bit of care during setup will go a long way toward making the experience enjoyable and even exciting. Whenever I demonstrate a tinfoil phonograph to a visitor with no experience in this realm, I blow people's minds. It's pretty amazing how excited some people get over the concept of recording sound on foil.

You made a passing reference to pure lead foil in the article: have you ever experimented with that, and if so, what were the results?

- Bill

[JohnM]

Heavy-duty aluminum foil will work, the main drawback is that it has a lot more surface noise than real tinfoil. I go into some detail about the differences among various foils on my website at this page: http://edisontinfoil.com/foils.htm

It definitely helps to wipe a thin layer of light oil over the aluminum foil surface if you go that route. That little bit of lubrication does somewhat reduce the loud, scratchy surface noise of the stylus scraping the hard aluminum.

The key to successful tinfoil recordings is in the adjustment of the stylus. It must be perfectly centered in the groove, and the depth has to be just right -- not too deep or it will tear the foil, not too shallow or the recording will be faint. Finding the sweet spot will take some trial and error but you'll be surprised how quickly you will become proficient at gauging that. A good loupe helps during setup. I always do my initial settings without foil on the mandrel, so I can get a very clear view of the position of the stylus and the groove. Start with the depth a bit on the shallow side and increase the depth in small increments as you experiment, until you find the ideal setting for maximum volume and clarity, without tearing it.

A well-made and properly-adjusted tinfoil phonograph should NOT require shouting at the top of your lungs to get good results. You need to speak distinctly, directly into the speaker, using strong chest tones. Slightly higher than normal volume is good, but there's no need to scream into it, as I see so often in videos. A horn held in the mouthpiece definitely helps both in recording and playback.

A bit of care during setup will go a long way toward making the experience enjoyable and even exciting. Whenever I demonstrate a tinfoil phonograph to a visitor with no experience in this realm, I blow people's minds. It's pretty amazing how excited some people get over the concept of recording sound on foil.

Thank you for the solid information, Rene! I would have known little or nothing about these subtleties without your reply. I’m particularly excited about not having to shout. I have one question — is there any adjustment made to the speaker/repeater between those two functions? Thanks again!

[TinfoilPhono]

You made a passing reference to pure lead foil in the article: have you ever experimented with that, and if so, what were the results?

Unfortunately I've never been able to find pure lead or tin/lead foil to experiment with. I have a small piece of lead foil here which I got years ago from Dave Heitz, and which he had reason to believe came from Edison's lab (no idea if it had been intended for phonograph use there). It is very heavy compared to tin. But it is definitely very soft, so it's anyone's guess today how that would work for recording. My guess is that it would be too soft to record well. But, by all contemporary reports, a foil made of lead with tin cladding gave the best results. Evidently with some added strength, lead might be great.

I have one question — is there any adjustment made to the speaker/repeater between those two functions?

No, the setting for recording and for reproducing is identical.

[gsphonos]

Believe it or not, I have had great results with Aluminum Foil Tape that I get at my local 99 cents only store! Sometimes the fun is in the experimentation!

Mike