Governor end bearings

[Sherazhyder]

Hello ! Does anybody have information about end bearings of the 533 double spring Swiss made motor by Paillard? Is there a way to repair these bearings if a replacement is not available? Thanks

[Sherazhyder]

There is one more thing that I want to learn about. Are there any gramophones which have governor end bearings with balls? Please educate me. Thanks

[Inigo]

HMV/Victor motors have balls inside the bearings, at least in the motors of the 1920s onwards.

[Sherazhyder]

Very interesting! I did not about that though I have three HMV machines but never had a chance to take out their governors. But I have replaced several governors of Swiss made machines which have the so called bearings which function as retainers or keepers of the governor. However I never found any balls in them. The balls must be a later day innovation.

The governor in one of my Swiss 533 machine loosely hangs over the bearings and causing play in the movement and thus noise. After your clarification it seems that my machine does have bearings but no balls and these bearings could be easily made by any expert lathe shop. Thanks

[Inigo]

Your bearings are loose, I mean, radially? As if they were worn out?
Also, take notice of this: in Thorens motors, one of the bearings has the pin hole eccentric, so you can adjust the distance between the governor worm screw and the spindle gear for fine adjustment, just by rotating the bearing and fixing it with the set screw in the desired position. Apart from that, they are also adjustable longitudinally. These operations must be done with the motor completely wound down, i.e. no force in the springs. The governor must be adjusted by moving the bearings. Once you have the worm centered on the spindle gear, you fix one bearing, then you give just a little longitudinal play at the other bearing, and test it. If adjustment of the distance between worm and gear is required, you loosen the eccentric bearing and rotate it just a bit, to separate or approach the worm from the gear. Before fixing it, remember to leave a small longitudinal play to the governor axis.
If the worm is too near the gear, they will get jammed, and rotation is hard. If too separated, the worm will not bit the gear properly, so it will make noise or eventually the gear will slide. These Thorens spindle gears are made from fibre, and very delicate, it can easily be ruined. So proceed with calm and care, and don't wind the motor too much for testing. These motors when properly adjusted run at the very touch of the winding crank, a couple turns and they are running,!

[anchorman]

my understanding is that there would be a ball in the end of the bearing/bushing that goes in the frame to act as a thrust bearing, minimizing the point of contact on the end of the governor shaft when they are snugged up to remove end play. I haven't noticed balls inside of these on my motors, but I have not looked for them either. They would be very tiny, smaller than the diameter of the shaft.

[Inigo]

Could be. There's long time since I dismantled any of my Thorens motors, and can't remember if these had a ball or not. I guess they don't. The end pins of the governor shaft in these are very thin and the holes in the bearings are accordingly narrow when compared to other motors. If there's a ball in there, it must be miniscule.. I thought they trust on the small friction existing between the axis end pins (polished steel) and the brass bearings alone, with a drop of oil, but no balls... I could be wrong anyway.

[Sherazhyder]

Hi Inigo and Anchorman ! Thanks for the piece of information and advice. There was no ball in the bearing just a pin hole and I first fitted the governor end in the bearing; adjusted the governor position to the worm; aligned the position of two bearings and tightened the screws as well. The result is tremendous. Some pictures are attached for your reference. Thanks

Cheers
Sheraz

[Inigo]

Aha! Well done! These motors are a little marvel!

[Inigo]

I noticed in one photo that the hole for a gear arbour (the intermediate gear) is out of shape (ovalized)... Maybe it's yet not dangerous, but grease it. If the arbour gets misaligned because of this gap, the gear will suffer. I've seen repairs done on this matter, by cutting the plate at a larger diameter, then insert a brass disc, mark the true center on the brass and drill a hole in it to the exact diameter of the arbour end pin.