Expert Senior combined radio

[Ahmed]

I saw this illustration of an "Expert Senior combined acoustic and radio gramophone" in McKenzie's "Gramophones, Acoustic and Radio".

No description of it annoyingly, rather just a general description of what a radiogram is and how to choose and operate one.

To me that looks like a picture, not an illustration, so at least one example did exist. Not entirely clear if the radio played through the horn somehow, or if there was a speaker there as well? A very good use of that empty cabinet space in any case.

I think I can see a separate electric pickup and tonearm in the picture, perhaps suggesting there's a speaker in there so it can be used as a radiogram? The picture is too grainy to tell for sure.

Fascinating item, and I'd love to hear more about it, especially if someone has clearer pictures

[Steve]

I've seen the one shown in the illustration. Unfortunately the radio had been ripped out of it.

[emgcr]

Isn't that the one shown on page 69 in The E.M.G. story ?

If it is, then I think it is likely that there was an internal loudspeaker for the radio.

[emgcr]

The other method used at the time does not seem to have been employed in this instance as the interposed moving coil would have been visible in the image and resulted in a higher horn position. It would also have been quite inconvenient to have to remove the moving coil to play records which may have a bearing upon the fact that these items are extremely rare---in fact, I have never seen one ! A loudspeaker does seem eminently sensible !

[Steve]

Frank owned the example from Cape Town which Graham has referenced above and which might or might not be the same one as shown in the original illustration. I can't recall an aperture for an internal speaker as it was over 15 years ago now but the moving coil placement was a very real thing. The radio gramophone was designed so that both records and radio would be heard through the horn.

The problem with the South African example was that someone had ripped out the innards mounted below the motorboard, presumably due to the electronics being defunct. Restoration wouldn't have been easy but at least the gramophone still worked.

[epigramophone]

Isn't that the one shown on page 69 in The E.M.G. story ?

If it is, then I think it is likely that there was an internal loudspeaker for the radio.

I saw this machine, or one very similar, at Brook Farm during my visits to Frank James. The radio was missing.
I believe that Chunny bought it. If so, perhaps he will tell us about his plans for it.

[emgcr]

The radio gramophone was designed so that both records and radio would be heard through the horn.

That raises an interesting point Steve. I had always assumed that the movng coil mechanism would have had to have been removed before a record could be played---but you think not ?

I too saw the Senior when at Frank's home but it was by then in a poor state having undergone a flood and I am afraid I did not look at it in detail. I think you are right Roger about Chunny now being the owner.

[chunnybh]

The first time I heard of this Senior, it was on an SAS auction and did not reach it's reserve. Highest bid was £2500. I didn't bid because of the lack of interest and as usual there was no condition report from SAS and the pictures were just awful with the background badly Photoshop'ed out.
I contacted Frank and to my surprise he said it was his and he would either relist it, or put it on Ebay . If I wanted it, he would go collect it and save it for me for when I was next in the UK.
We agreed on a price and Frank collected it for me. I couldn't make it to the UK that year and then the Pandemic hit, Frank died and it took till this summer for me to arrange to collect it from the James family.
It was delivered to my shipping company for crating and shipping in June. When I returned home, I was told by the shipping company I have used for decades, that they no long do international shipping because of the state of Global Logistics.
From the other side of the world, I had to find another shipping company to arrange the shipping. I tried everything, impossible. Finally I found a removal company that would come collect the goods and pack, ship, deal with customs and deliver to me in Australia. Of course they couldn't deal with a crate so big so I had to pay again to have the goods uncrated.
I don't even want to think what the total cost was. It's still not here. They are telling me mid January, maybe!.
Gone the days of easy shipping.
Enough of the moan.

Back to the Senior. I didn't get a chance to have a good look, the horn was ok but the cabinet was in a sorry state. It looked like it had been gutted. The Garrard induction motor was mounted badly on hardboard covering up what looked like a hole cut for a Garrard 301. It could have been remodeled and rebuilt several times. I'll have a closer look for speaker mountings etc when it eventually arrives and report my findings.

To me the radiogram pic shows two tonearms. I suspect the usual acoustic and an electrical tonearm fitted with a pickup.

... but the moving coil placement was a very real thing. The radio gramophone was designed so that both records and radio would be heard through the horn

Steve, so did you see it with the large Moving Coil attachment? It's the only way I can thing of connecting the radio to the horn?

[Ahmed]

So glad to hear this instrument lives on (albeit sans its radio) and is on its way to just the right person. Look forward to hearing/seeing more when you have it Chunny.

I'd have also thought you couldn't have the acoustic and electric reproduction through the horn without having to swap things around. Unless perhaps it's got a modified conduit so that the speaker is permanently feeding into the horn without obstructing the acoustic path? Unlikely, but only one way to find out!

[Steve]

The first time I heard of this Senior, it was on an SAS auction and did not reach it's reserve. Highest bid was £2500. I didn't bid because of the lack of interest and as usual there was no condition report from SAS and the pictures were just awful with the background badly Photoshop'ed out.
I contacted Frank and to my surprise he said it was his and he would either relist it, or put it on Ebay . If I wanted it, he would go collect it and save it for me for when I was next in the UK.
We agreed on a price and Frank collected it for me. I couldn't make it to the UK that year and then the Pandemic hit, Frank died and it took till this summer for me to arrange to collect it from the James family.
It was delivered to my shipping company for crating and shipping in June. When I returned home, I was told by the shipping company I have used for decades, that they no long do international shipping because of the state of Global Logistics.
From the other side of the world, I had to find another shipping company to arrange the shipping. I tried everything, impossible. Finally I found a removal company that would come collect the goods and pack, ship, deal with customs and deliver to me in Australia. Of course they couldn't deal with a crate so big so I had to pay again to have the goods uncrated.
I don't even want to think what the total cost was. It's still not here. They are telling me mid January, maybe!.
Gone the days of easy shipping.
Enough of the moan.

Back to the Senior. I didn't get a chance to have a good look, the horn was ok but the cabinet was in a sorry state. It looked like it had been gutted. The Garrard induction motor was mounted badly on hardboard covering up what looked like a hole cut for a Garrard 301. It could have been remodeled and rebuilt several times. I'll have a closer look for speaker mountings etc when it eventually arrives and report my findings.

To me the radiogram pic shows two tonearms. I suspect the usual acoustic and an electrical tonearm fitted with a pickup.

... but the moving coil placement was a very real thing. The radio gramophone was designed so that both records and radio would be heard through the horn

Steve, so did you see it with the large Moving Coil attachment? It's the only way I can thing of connecting the radio to the horn?

Hi Chunny,
It was 15 years ago when I saw it originally at Frank's place at Yartleton Farm. I'm sure he told me it was headed your way back then?!

Unfortunately I can't remember whether the moving coil was fitted. I gave it a cursory once over and remember Frank saying it had had a hard life and was sadly missing the radio components. Maybe the moving coil was missing too? I certainly don't recall there being two tonearms though.