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I recently bought 20 tins of Gallotone needles, all sealed with the original paper bands. It states on the tin that each needle plays ten sides, which I know is optimistic, to say the least. However, I find that each needle will only get through about half a side before the sound gets blurred, a sure indication that the needle has worn out. I've tried selecting a needle from different tins, and also using various different soundboxes, with the same result. I've examined the points under magnification before playing, and there's a good sharp point on each one. Sounds crazy, I know, but could the needles have somehow softened over the years? I can't see it myself, but unless all twenty tins have been manufactured badly, what other explanation could there be?

Barry

My guess is corrosion. I had a similar experience with packs of brand new, sealed steel needles, that could not play when I tried. It could be oxidization due to humidity, or galvanic corrosion, as the points are concentrators for the electrical field. It could as well be a factory defect as you say. I threw out my packs of needles, as in my case they were ruining the records.

I wouldn't like to guess at the reason in this case, but this reminds me of a problem with newly-made needles I experienced 15 or 20 years ago. I bought a quantity of needles from a UK producer - they were in rigid plastic tubes with the old Songster design on them. They would never last a side. I spoke to a technical manager who immediately became defensive, almost belligerent, insisting this was impossible, and I had the impression it wasn't the first time such a comment had been received.

They still turn up on eBay from time to time; these look identical https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164521113005 but in all fairness, they might be OK, who knows.

As we discussed in other threads (which are now nearly impossible to be found) making needles is not just cutting and turning and polishing, there are other processes involved, the most important of which I believe is heat hardening of the tips. This was a delicate matter that could be only partially monitored with the limited industrial electronic technology then available, so needles' batches would also be sample-tested "on the field" by expert technicians, and in case discarded.

My educated guess is that something went wrong back then with heat hardening of the needles you bought, and that quality check of Gallotone was "not on par" with that of other brands. But of course I can't exclude a degradation of the metal alloy, as Carlos very reasonably said.

Incidentally, as Andy remembered, this is also the reason why it is better to buy newly made needles by reputable sellers, about whom many experienced collectors swear by (Mike "soundgen" in my case).

Gallotone was a South African brand if I remember right, but I don't know where the stuff was actually made.

I have had needles made for forty years and long ago had this problem with loud tone needles in that they wouldn't play a record completely , I sent batches back to the factory to be rehardened assuming that was the problem only to find it made no difference ! I eventually twigged why and my loud tone needles now play OK

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 3:41 am involved, the most important of which I believe is heat hardening of the tips.

This is a very interesting point. It has been suggested to me in the past that steel needles are in some way 'soft', presumably because they wear before the record does.

While I have not done any scientific tests. I did once try to saw through a needle, something I have successfully done with a similar sized nail.

The gramophone needle didn't want to cut at all, so I presumed it was in fact hardened, which after reading this thread seems to be the case. Thanks

mrrgstuff wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:16 pmThis is a very interesting point. It has been suggested to me in the past that steel needles are in some way 'soft', presumably because they wear before the record does.

I think most people - even quite experienced collectors - believe this is how the whole system was designed to work, but yes, possibly it's a misconception if you think that very hard metals like tungsten were also considered to be apt to play records. I never really found a treatise on this matter, so I'm just speculating, but I think that needles weren't made intentionally soft as to wear out quickly - perhaps a balance between record wear and needle wear was seeked; however they're made of very hard metal as you experimented by cutting one, definitely not of a deliberately soft alloy.

I've found some hints about re-heating hardening on the preface of a book about gramophone needle tins collections (Grammophon Nadeldosen by Horst-Dieter Linz, a very funny book with thousands of pictures that I heartfeltly recommend). Of course there are no specs or technical details, however it is reported that the hardening process by re-heating was considered to be so crucial, that the dials of all the instruments monitoring the process (thermometers, pressure gauges, timers...) were doubled inside the offices of the executives, so they could double-check the machines anytime.

I believe that this part of the process was largely forgotten over the years (I, in turn, ignored it completely for many decades, and got to know about it only recently) and agree with Andy (Orchorsol) that at least some newly made needles didn't benefit of re-heat hardening and thus show a very short duration when playing a record.

Steel needles are manufactured using mild steel wire , which is soft so that the point can be ground with suitable abrasives , after pointing the needles are case hardened by adding carbon powder and heating in a furnace thus changing the outside of the needle to harder carbon steel , it would be difficult to sharpen the needleif the steel was already hardened

One thing I'd like to offer is that if the reproducer/soundbox is excessively non compliant due to wrong gaskets, stiff needle bar because the tensioning springs are too tight or too thick a replacement diaphragm. Any of those situations will cause the needle to wear excessively. Not to mention the poor record !! Hopefully the tonearm pivot is free from binding.