The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have a 1920s Silvertone Phonograph with a Saal DD motor. The machine would play records just fine but as I had recently bought it, I wanted to clean the motor. Upon reassembling, the turntable shaft needs to be manually turned to get it spinning and will stall if any pressure is put on the turntable.

If I just have the motor out (turntable taken off) and start the machine spinning, it will lasts a few seconds before stopping.

Some Notes:
1. I did NOT take the springs out of the spring barell. This proved to be more difficult than I anticipated. The grease seemed "recent" (not clumped or dried out). I ended up wiping the grease I could and putting in Sta-Lube CRC SL3330 Moly-Graph Extreme Pressure Multi-Purpose Lithium Grease. While putting new grease on top of old grease is not ideal, I did not have a better solution. Springs did not appear broken even after I tried (really hard and unsuccessfully) to remove them. The lithium grease seems "extra sticky" (if that is a thing) and I am wondering if it is gunking things up.

2. I did not remove the govenor. There is some play with it where it sits. From my research, some play is ok, just not sure how much. I did remove the govenor worm (no. 556) and Intermediate gear with shaft (103).

3. The screw that keeps the regulating lever (no 735) attached to the speed regulator (no. 136) had come off. I believe I reattached this correctly but the screw easily comes out.

4. I double checked to make sure all the gears were properly aligned. They seem to be.

5. I have tried changing records and I do use a fresh needle each time I play a record. Since this problem persists even without the turntable/record, I do not think this is the problem.

My troubleshooting so far has included:
1. I put too much grease grease in the spring barells (it was oozing out of everywhere) and went back and wiped it down some.
2. I checked the different brakes to see if possibly this was causing issues. The Gov. Brake Level (No 730) and Felt Pad (659) do not seem to be causing the issue.
3. I rechecked to make sure I oiled everything including the turntable shaft. In the end, I think I have too much oil on it now.
4. Taking the motor apart and putting it back together multiple times.
5. My winding shaft with swivel (No 124) is a bit loose, but that was an issue before I dissasembled.


Here is a video I took of the motor running https://youtu.be/DDvSGtEBfEI
I know it is not very good so if there is something specfic I can focus on, let me know and I can take another video and update.

I am not familiar with these motors, but some do have a little ball bearing under the shaft that drives the turntable. Is it possible this got lost in the dismantling? You could try dismantling it again and re-assembling without the turntable drive shaft and see how it runs then....might be a clue.

It is beyond my comprehension how you could replace the governor worm without disassembling the governor, as you have written.

However, there must be the correct slack between the wormgear and the gear with which it engages. If you have changed the worm and the gear, surely the slack that was previously applied will not be correct any longer. In order to achieve the proper slack, usually the two bearings at the end of the governor axle are eccentric and can be rotated in order to gain/reduce slack. There is no "scientific" rule: the correct amount of slack and the best angle of attack is generally achieved by trial and error.

2. I did not remove the govenor. There is some play with it where it sits. From my research, some play is ok, just not sure how much. I did remove the govenor worm (no. 556) and Intermediate gear with shaft (103).

Is the play in the governor shaft fore & aft, and is there some play/backlash in the worm gear?

Try making slight changes to the adjustable governor end bearing, #113. The opposite end bearing is also a thrust bearing. Down inside the bearing, there should be a tiny ball bearing. The end of the governor shaft rides against that ball with just a point of contact, to reduce friction. Sometimes, in cleaning, that ball can fall out. Similarly, the end of the spindle shaft rides on a single ball bearing that sits in the bottom of the bearing in the Bridge Plate, #178. Very common for this to fall out during cleaning. Ensure that it is there.

Besides that, once the motor comes to a stop, and assuming there is still tension on the mainsprings, do a little delicate detective work. With the motor stopped, gently rotate the governor ahead just a tiny bit. Does the spindle shaft also turn when you do that? Or, does only the governor rotate, while the spindle shaft sticks in place? Going through each step in the gear train will eventually indicate where any binding is occurring.

BTW, if you removed the governor worm, then you did remove the governor.

Hey, your governor has an end which is adjustable, and this allows changing the distance between the worm and the gear. You must achieve a distance that allows good mesh between them but without excessive pressure... Can you see it?
Be careful and do these changes with the motor springs completely down. If you disengage these gears while under pressure from the springs, you can get injuries, and the gears can be damaged due to a sudden release of spring pressure with too slack gears.