Broken tonearm - expensive to fix?

[bart1927]

I already posted this message on another board, but I want as many opinions and advice on this as possible, so here we go:

I just noticed on another HMV 101 that I recently bought (I seem to be obsessed with these things) that the tonearm has been broken off at the base. It hasn't fallen off, or anything, it's still in place, but it has completely snapped off, as you can see in the picture. Is it still possible to fix this, or should I get a "new" tonearm? And, if it is still fixable, what should I try? Just glue it back?

Also, since repairing means that I have to remove both the motor board and the other piece of board, I will have to remove the lidstay again. But is there a neat trick to remove the second lidstay screw? The tonearm is in the way, so I can't fit my screwdriver in nicely. I've been trying to screw it out with the screwdriver at an angle, but it slips out of the screw everytime, and I'm afraid that I will damage the screw head or the motor board.

Oh, btw, I contacted the seller and he is willing to give me a small refund to cover the costs of the repairs. What will it cost to repair or replace it?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[gramophoneshane]

Originally, the two parts are soldered together, and that's how I'd repair it.
If it were mine, I'd probably just paint a little bit of soldering fluid down into the crack & then hit it with a soldering iron, and hope like **** there's enough solder already in the join to reattach the two pieces. I'd actually attempt to do this with the arm in place as it is now, and gentle push the arm down into the flange to realign them the best I could.
You'll get a putrid smell doing it this way because the outside edge of the flange is where the ball bearings ride, & the heat will burn off the old grease, but the smell will disappear in time. Once it's done, you'll then have to force some new grease down into the bearings.
This probably sounds like a stupid way to do it, but it will be far easier in the long run than the alternative- which is pulling the whole machine down completely.

When I pull down a 101, I start by removing the lid stay from the lid first, and then I take out all the hinge screws & remove the lid completely. I find it makes it much easier to work on the machine/base without the lid flapping around etc, plus you can get to the back screw of the lid stay a little easier by putting the machine on it's side & attacking the screw from the back.
Once the lid stay is off, you can them remove the tonearm board. You'll need to remove the screws that hold the board & the 3 screws that hold the tonearm. You dont have to worry about nuts falling off etc because the 3 screws go into threaded holes in the flange of the horn neck.
You should then be able to lift the board out by drawing the front right corner up first & wiggle the board out towards the right side of the cabinet. You need to do this so the board clears the left side & rear strip of wood that covers the edge of the metal horn. The other 2 cover strips of wood are attached to the board. Once the board & tonearm are out, then it's just a matter of pulling down the tonearm, cleaning everything & making the repair.
You'll get a much neater repair by removing the tonearm & soldering from the underside of the flange, but it's nothing short of a nightmare getting the arm out, and it's even worse reassembling the tonearm because the bearing are a real PITA to get back in (unless you've got 3 hands )
If you're going to pull it down this far, you might as well replace any felt that needs replacing, like where the motor board sits & on the underside of the wood strips that cover the edge of the horn.
There's also felt that sometimes needs replacing under the horn etc, which prevents the horn from rattling, but you need to remove the horn to get to them all, and you cant remove the horn unless you remove the remaining cover strips attached to the cabinet, & it's almost impossible to remove those without damaging them in some way.

[bart1927]

Hi Shane, thanks for the advice. I managed to remove the motorboard. The felt still looks pretty good, so that doesn't have to be replaced. Removing the tonearm was a piece of cake, but how am I supposed to free it from it's base (the round, black thing)?

If I understand you correctly the damage isn't that bad. The tonearm itself isn't broken, it's just a soldering joint that came loose. Right'

[gramophoneshane]

Yep, the solder has just broken (which is pretty unusual in my experience with these), so it wont be too hard to fix.
If you look in the base from underneath, you'll see what looks like a washer with 3 slots in it. That washer unscrews & it'll all come apart. There's other washers & parts of the ball race etc, so make a note of how it comes apart so you can reassemble it later.
The hardest part is getting the ball bearings back in place. They sit around the nickel flange, and are all that stops the arm from lifting out of the black base. It can be a bit tricky holding the base in the correct position while you put the bearings back in. I hold the arm in a wooden vise, hold the black bit in position with my hand & use plenty of grease where the balls sit. The grease acts like glue & stops the balls rolling out of position while you reassemble everything.

[Calle]

I've send you a PM.

[bart1927]

Yep, the solder has just broken (which is pretty unusual in my experience with these), so it wont be too hard to fix.
If you look in the base from underneath, you'll see what looks like a washer with 3 slots in it. That washer unscrews & it'll all come apart. There's other washers & parts of the ball race etc, so make a note of how it comes apart so you can reassemble it later.
The hardest part is getting the ball bearings back in place. They sit around the nickel flange, and are all that stops the arm from lifting out of the black base. It can be a bit tricky holding the base in the correct position while you put the bearings back in. I hold the arm in a wooden vise, hold the black bit in position with my hand & use plenty of grease where the balls sit. The grease acts like glue & stops the balls rolling out of position while you reassemble everything.

Well, I've disassembled to tonearm, and cleaned out all the old grease with engine cleaner (nasty stuff, but works great). But I'm a little unsure about the soldering part. First, I can't reach the "crack" from underneath, only from the top (the part that's visible in the picture). I could try to solder it from below, but in that case I'm actually making a new joint, and not repairing the old one. So the crack would still be visible. Also, my soldering experience is limited to soldering speaker cables. Can I use the same soldering tin for this job? I looked around and there seems to be a whole range of soldering stuff available, some for electrical parts, others for soldering copper or stainless steel. But what should I use for soldering a tonearm that is, I believe, made of nickel plated steel?

[gramophoneshane]

I wouldn't even try adding new solder to the joint. I'd just put a little Baker's soldering fluid down there & heat it from the underside. The solder from the original join should still be in there, and the fluid will just help reflow the old solder & allow the solder on both surfaces to combine together properly again.
Solder tends to be drawn toward the heat source, which is why I'd heat it from the underside. Heating it from the top side could cause the solder to be drawn above the surface of the join making it much more visible. Hopefully by heating from the underside, the 2 plated surfaces will line up again perfectly without any added metal (solder) between them. Before heating, make sure you wipe any fluid off the nickel plating, otherwise the solder will drawn to the fluid & stick permanently.
Unless you've got a pretty powerful (hot) soldering iron, you're probably better off using one of those small butane blow torches to heat it all up. A small hobby iron for electrical work probably wont heat everything enough for a good solid join.

I was hoping a few more guys with soldering experience would have offered their thoughts & suggestions.
Anything (I think) I know about soldering is purely self taught through experimentation over the last couple years, doing repairs to numerous & various bits of old junk in my collection of old junk lol.
I really have no idea if my suggestions are the right or wrong way a pro would go about it, but I've done similar jobs to this & it's worked for me.
I'm always willing to learn or try new & better things though

[bart1927]

I've send you a PM.

Hi Calle, I replied to your PM yesterday, but for some strange reason it keeps hanging in my outbox, without moving to "sent files".