Help with HMV cabinet refinish

[Ghaad]

Hi all,
First time posting and I am just starting my adventure with gramophones so any help will be appreciated.
Few years ago I bought HMV cabinet (seller called it HMV Cabinet Grand Model 12, but I couldn't find anything about this model online, I am not even sure if its proper model number). It was serviced, and runs quite well. The only issue is really badly crazed finish, to the point it was almost impossible to tell what color it was supposed to be. Few weeks ago I discovered that the finish was shellac, so I decided to remove old one and put coats of new shellac. I tried to reamalgamate it, but it didn't work. It just become sticky and turned into black goop - so I started removing it.
Today I tried again to reamalgamate small spot, and it kinda worked, but at this point I already removed shellac from almost entire lid, half of one of sides and leg, so probably I can't turn back.
If I just removed shellac everywhere, I probably would be content with results. But now afterI saw that the part with revived finish has much nicer color, I'm at loss how to proceed. The parts I cleaned, are much more orange than original color. I tried using ruby shellac, but that didn't help much. Is there anyway to make it more red without restaining? I am aware that I won't match original finish, and I am not trying to. But I'd prefer if I could make it a bit more mahogany-ish. I attached few pictures.
I am also aware that possibly I shouldn't refinish it all, and just left it as it was. But I am not too worried about its collector value, I just want it look nice and work well.

Thanks,
Ghaad

P.S. - Sorry if my English is a bit weird, it isn't my native language and I didn't have much practice in recent years.

[JerryVan]

What's wrong with re-staining? Many times, cases are refinished without #1, a light sanding, and #2, re-staining. The result is usually a blotchy, off-color, washed out looking result. The stripping process, no matter how it's done, usually removes some degree of original coloration, and often not in a uniform manner.

[Ghaad]

What's wrong with re-staining? Many times, cases are refinished without #1, a light sanding, and #2, re-staining. The result is usually a blotchy, off-color, washed out looking result. The stripping process, no matter how it's done, usually removes some degree of original coloration, and often not in a uniform manner.

I guess I am bit afraid of staining, because when I attempted it in past on some furniture it ended really blotchy. So far on the parts where I removed shellac, color is quite uniform, but you are right that it's also washed out. Can stain be added on top of existing finish or would I need to sand it down to bare wood? What stain would be best - oil based or water? As for light sanding - you mean something around 320 grit?

[JerryVan]

What's wrong with re-staining? Many times, cases are refinished without #1, a light sanding, and #2, re-staining. The result is usually a blotchy, off-color, washed out looking result. The stripping process, no matter how it's done, usually removes some degree of original coloration, and often not in a uniform manner.

I guess I am bit afraid of staining, because when I attempted it in past on some furniture it ended really blotchy. So far on the parts where I removed shellac, color is quite uniform, but you are right that it's also washed out. Can stain be added on top of existing finish or would I need to sand it down to bare wood? What stain would be best - oil based or water? As for light sanding - you mean something around 320 grit?

Stain needs to be applied to bare wood. I like using dye stains, but they can be tricky, (and toxic). Oil based stains should work fine. Wipe on an even coating, then wipe off the excess with a dry cloth before the stain dries. I would not sand down to bare wood as that will make a light spot. I'd remove any existing shellac with alcohol.

A 320 grit should be okay. On flat surfaces, use a sanding block and sand lightly. You just want to remove any roughness on the surface of the wood. After sanding, wipe CLEAN to remove any dust, then apply stain. If the color is not dark enough, apply a second coat of stain. Allow 24 hours for the stain to dry, then apply finish. Maybe try with a small area on the backside first.

[Ghaad]

What's wrong with re-staining? Many times, cases are refinished without #1, a light sanding, and #2, re-staining. The result is usually a blotchy, off-color, washed out looking result. The stripping process, no matter how it's done, usually removes some degree of original coloration, and often not in a uniform manner.

I guess I am bit afraid of staining, because when I attempted it in past on some furniture it ended really blotchy. So far on the parts where I removed shellac, color is quite uniform, but you are right that it's also washed out. Can stain be added on top of existing finish or would I need to sand it down to bare wood? What stain would be best - oil based or water? As for light sanding - you mean something around 320 grit?

Stain needs to be applied to bare wood. I like using dye stains, but they can be tricky, (and toxic). Oil based stains should work fine. Wipe on an even coating, then wipe off the excess with a dry cloth before the stain dries. I would not sand down to bare wood as that will make a light spot. I'd remove any existing shellac with alcohol.

A 320 grit should be okay. On flat surfaces, use a sanding block and sand lightly. You just want to remove any roughness on the surface of the wood. After sanding, wipe CLEAN to remove any dust, then apply stain. If the color is not dark enough, apply a second coat of stain. Allow 24 hours for the stain to dry, then apply finish. Maybe try with a small area on the backside first.

Thanks for tips and help! I am just a bit confused, because you wrote than stain needs to be applied to bare wood. But then you say that you would not sand it to bare wood? I tried to apply Minwax oil mahogany stain on one spot (didn't sand it down to bare wood, just removed shellac with alcohol) . Sadly it seems it doesn't take stain at all, I left it on for about 10min, then wiped it off and I dont see any change in color.

[JerryVan]

Thanks for tips and help! I am just a bit confused, because you wrote than stain needs to be applied to bare wood. But then you say that you would not sand it to bare wood?

While the stain needs to be applied to bare wood, I would not sand away the existing finish to get to bare wood. Instead, I would use the alcohol to remove the existing finish. Only then would I lightly sand to smooth the wood surface and open the grain up to receive stain.

Did you stir the Minwax stain enough to bring the pigment off of the bottom of the can where it can settle? Only light color change can be the case with oil based pigment stains, unfortunately.

[Ghaad]

A bit of the update:
I am still working on it (albeit, quite slowly. But I prefer to do a little bit of work, then leave it. As if I push myself I tend to rush things which quite often results in much worse outcome).
I removed all old shellac, Dismantled the doors for ease of access. As for stain, it seems to be working great on doors and the sides (I guess those are covered in veneer?), the result on other frame is far less pronounced, but still gives a bit richer colour.
As of now, I stained doors and I'm putting shellac finish on them (using cotton bundle). I never realised how much work it takes. I need to put a lot of coats to cover the wood grain texture (I assume this is how it originally looked like, as the inside where old shellac didn't crack is smooth like glass). I don't think I will be able to make it look as smooth as it originally was, but I think it will look acceptable.
I tried to take a photo, but finish is too glossy so it doesn't look great on picture.

I have 1 more question: Any idea what are the handles made of? At first, I assumed those were made of steel which was electro-plated with brass. I though that, because they look 'rusty'. But then I checked with magnet, and it didn't stick at all. I also tried polishing part of it, at bottom and it seems to be pure brass. But if that's the case, I have no idea what the 'rust' covering it is. I am afraid that if I try to polish them, I will buff through the brass and some other metal will show.

[JerryVan]

The knobs are gold plated brass. Any polishing will remove the gold. Many have soaked them in ammonia to clean them up. Maybe others can offer their methods as well?

[Ghaad]

Sorry for resurrecting old topic, but I wanted to share the final results. While not perfect, I do like it and I learned quite a lot. One of the top door I had to redo like 3 times, but it was always my fault
In reality it's big darker, and the difference between top doors and bottom ones isn't that visible.
As to gold plated parts, i did try ammonia, and it worked quite well, sadly much of gold plating was simply gone so not much could be done about that.

Thanks again Jerry for all the tips!

Soon I will be making post about HMV 101 I got recently, and as it usually happens with things that are suspiciously cheap it has some issues

[JerryVan]

Nice job! I like it. Thanks for the update!