HMV 157 with Sound Box no. 5A (Adjustment)

[phyi9530]

Hi all, greeting from Malaysia. I recently acquired a HMV model 157 (? I saw online that 157 usually comes with a small circle tag - not sure why the tag of this machine was on a metal plate placed below the turntable) with a sound box no. 5A. I have roughly cleaned up the gramophone and realise that the needle bar appears to lean inwards / upward to the cover. This causes the needle to lean inwards when being placed on a record. I read online that the needle should lie perpendicular to the needle (look from the front) and about 60 degree (look from the side).

I sprayed some WD-40 on the screws at the both side of the pivots (read somewhere online but not sure if this is the correct term) and managed to remove the 2 screws. However the pivots remain firm and not moving at all (despite spraying more WD-40!). I am new to gramophone and this is actually my first time trying to fix/adjust a sound box. The diaphragm was also quite dusty at first, and in cleaning it and trying to adjust the needle bar, my tools did accidentally hit the diaphragm causing minor dent... Would really appreciate it if I can seek for guidance on how best and proper to go about it and the correct tools (and to prevent further damage to diaphragm due to the wrong method)? The gramophone looks great and it will be be very unfortunate if it cannot be played merely because the 'tilted’ needle bar.

I think the motor/spring is still strong although it's slightly dirty. I also notice that after running for some times, the spring will have "bump" sounds. Usually if I wind it up for say 30 turns, it will have "bump" sounds twice (the first "bump" came few minutes from release of turntable and the next follows after few minutes) from the point the turntable was released and finally came to stop. But this does not affect the smooth spinning of turntable which is quiet. So I would think it should be alright?

The speed regulator is faulty. When I took the motor board off, I find that the regulator adjustment steel is stuck, and as such, it will not come up and down following the regulator screw. Maybe I will try to figure it out after the 'tilted' needle bar is fixed.

Many thanks in advance for the guidance. It was a beautiful machine despite its age (not sure if it's from circa 1930?) and really hope that it can be fixed soon.

Regards,
Robert HY

[JerryVan]

Robert,

It appears that your needle arm has suffered a hard hit that has caused it buckle & bend somewhat. If you're good at soldering and working on delicate things, you could unsolder the end of the needle arm from the diaphragm spider, then remove the pivots and the needle arm itself. As you discovered, there is more to removing the pivots than just the 2 screws. Others will have better advice there than I can offer. Once removed, the arm can be gently straightened and replaced. You could also try straightening it "in place" by gently squeezing the buckled side of the arm to bring it back into shape. This may cause the arm to straighten out as a result.

[epigramophone]

The HMV157 was available from 1927 to 1933. The presence of a rectangular metal plaque on the motor board of your machine suggests a date of 1929, when it briefly replaced the usual ivorine disc.

[phyi9530]

Robert,

It appears that your needle arm has suffered a hard hit that has caused it buckle & bend somewhat. If you're good at soldering and working on delicate things, you could unsolder the end of the needle arm from the diaphragm spider, then remove the pivots and the needle arm itself. As you discovered, there is more to removing the pivots than just the 2 screws. Others will have better advice there than I can offer. Once removed, the arm can be gently straightened and replaced. You could also try straightening it "in place" by gently squeezing the buckled side of the arm to bring it back into shape. This may cause the arm to straighten out as a result.

Hi Jerry, Thanks for the suggestion - much appreciated. I do find that the 2 nuts at the pivot are holding the pivots firmly and I am still figuring a way to loosen the nut. I tried to use a pair of long nose pliers but that didn't seem to work well. It did turn the nuts slightly but more of the time it just "slided" off the nuts - could not hold the nuts well. Maybe let's me try to find if there is any other suitable tool to do this. Once this can be done, maybe I will try to re-solder the connections so that the diaphragm is not push too onwards.

Regards,
Robert HY

[phyi9530]

The HMV157 was available from 1927 to 1933. The presence of a rectangular metal plaque on the motor board of your machine suggests a date of 1929, when it briefly replaced the usual ivorine disc.

Hi, Thanks for the information - it's good to know that - I always find these old inventions amazing being of such a good built that doesn't seem to show that it is nearly 100 years old. Many thanks.

Regards,
Robert HY

[jamiegramo]

I think the motor/spring is still strong although it's slightly dirty. I also notice that after running for some times, the spring will have "bump" sounds. Usually if I wind it up for say 30 turns, it will have "bump" sounds twice (the first "bump" came few minutes from release of turntable and the next follows after few minutes) from the point the turntable was released and finally came to stop. But this does not affect the smooth spinning of turntable which is quiet. So I would think it should be alright?

The speed regulator is faulty. When I took the motor board off, I find that the regulator adjustment steel is stuck, and as such, it will not come up and down following the regulator screw. Maybe I will try to figure it out after the 'tilted' needle bar is fixed.

Hi Robert,

This is a common problem I have found with HMV motors of this period. They used a graphite grease in the spring barrels that sets hard like cement. This causes the springs to stick together and not slide easily as they wind or unwind. The sudden pressure released from a sticky spring causes the ‘bumps’ you are hearing. Ideally the springs need removing and cleaning and regreasing. Removing springs from the barrel is not for the novice and there is some advice below if you don’t want to. Here’s a quote from Curt A from one of the many threads you could look up on cleaning motors:

‘Don't use Vaseline and graphite - that's what hardened in the spring barrels. Use any modern automotive grease, synthetic or not - if it's good enough for automotive bearings, it's good enough for a Victrola.

If you don't want to take the springs out, soak them in kerosene or diesel for a few days, drain the gunk out and finish cleaning with carb or brake cleaner and a stiff brush - then re-grease pushing it between the coils. That should take care of it for your lifetime...’

The sticky speed regulator is probably due to dry oil on the bearings. You need to give the motor a clean and new oil.

Jamie

[phyi9530]

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for the advice - much appreciated. Maybe I will study more Youtube video to try to remove the spring as that seems to be the best way to service the motor at . Do you think if it's okay to use this lithium grease from Lucas instead https://www.lucasoil.com/product/white-lithium-grease/? I have this at home and I am not good in automobile grease (bought one previously but it seems to too sticky for the motor).

Thanks and regards,
Robert HY

[jamiegramo]

I used lithium grease in my Amberola 50 spring barrels. It seems to be fine. Collectors will probably have different opinions on the grease though.

Edit; Collectors ‘do’ have different opinions on the grease though! Apparently greases like lithium and others can vary depending on the carrier oil. This can evaporate over time. Any comments about which is the longest lasting grease are welcome.

[Inigo]

I've put Molykote BR2 Plus in my hmv127 barrel with two new springs, and it is thumping everyday, no matter if I use it frequently or not. I must clean and regrease asap if I don't want to ruin them springs again! I don't know if my Moly can is too old, or spoiled, although the grease seems like new and looks and smells good (I bought a big can 20 years ago and still using it). It never has worked with any spring, small or large... I don't know why some people can praise it for greasing gramophone springs. It simply doesn't work. It's a case of eternal fidelity with me, but I definitely am throwing away the towel with that product. Never more.

[phyi9530]

Hi all, I managed to remove the springs and, degrease and regrease them. However, while I was trying to reinstall the motor, I'm stuck with the barrel cap. It seems that the barrel shape had deformed slightly such that the cap does not fit anymore. I also had considerable difficulty in removing the barrel cap in the first place. May I know if anyone has any experience to deal with this? Should I shave the cap slightly at the edges to make it small and fit into the barrel?