How do you restore a Edison model c reproducer

[Victrolaman]

Just picked up a 1903 Edison standard model a cylinder machine today for 200. Came with 20 cylinders and 14" whites style horn, plays fine but I want to redo the reproducer, I know it's basically like a exhibition with gaskets and mica, I think this diaphragm on mine is copper, not sure. Anyhow I'm sure some members of the form have some pictures of one taken apart or have rebuilt theirs before, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Shane]

Sounds like you got a good deal on that machine! On the body of the reproducer, there is a loop of metal that holds a pin in place. You can either bend this loop back to release the pin (be VERY careful not to break anything!) or you may be able to unscrew the pin. Also, unhook the metal connector between the needle bar and the diaphragm. Or, if you are able to unscrew or remove the pin that holds the needle bar to the body of the reproducer, that will work also.

Once you have these two items unhooked, you should be able to open the reproducer like a clamshell. A metal ring screws in which holds the gaskets and diaphragm in place. There are two slots on the ring. I unscrew it by having someone hold the reproducer while I put a nail in each slot and unscrew the ring. I'm sure there's some sort of special tool that fits the slots in the ring, but I don't have it. Hope this helps... this is my two cents!

[Victrolaman]

Lol
Thanks Shane for the help, I appreciate it! I looked today, I saw that little screw pin, I unscrewed that but I didn't dare touch anything else, I don't think the screw holding the sapphire I should touch, so. Will try the next step you said, once I ge that open is it like a Vic number 2 setup?
The sound quality is ok, sounds ver loud and harsh though, I think that's because of the hard gaskets. Do I need to replace the diaphragm or can I use that one again,
By changing the gaskets will it make it sound any better?

Also while I have you here, the cylinders, how do you clean them? The ones I got with it are good, but they have all sorts of spots on them dust or it looks like a film, dirt maybe?
Will that help with the sound quality of those as well?
When. Went to pal one it was scratchy a bit and it skipped a lot on the beginning part, so I thought the reproducer was bad but I played another and it was fine, so I think some of the cylinders need a good cleaning. I wiped one off with a sift cloth and then it looked new? So I need to clean them.
Yeah for the price it was a good deal, the market is gone for all this stuff now, but I bet in a good market I could get more than I bought it for.
Shane, thanks so much for your time and knowledge, appreciate it.

Mike

[Brad]

Mike,

Be careful if you go the nail route, or at least employ a helper that won't sue you if you slip and rip their hand open

The picture below are of two tools that I purchased from APSCO several years ago, I believe the one on the left is for the Model C,(H,....) repro. The are made from steel. If you have a grinder, you can easily make one from a putty knife available at your local home/paint retailer.

The model C does use a copper diaphragm. If your repro is not rattling or blasting, there may not be any need to rebuild (I am sure other opinions exist).

[Victrolaman]

Thanks Brad,
I agree, it isn't rattling at all, just sounds tinny sounding? I don't know if I'm not used to having a machine like this yet or what it is, in my experiences with victor exhibitions and number 2's, when they sound loud and harsh it's because the rings are all dry and hard. But I have nothing to compare this sound to.
I mean for a few dollars it doesn't hurt to change the rings out.
I don't know how long that sapphire ball is good for, I think it's the original, I don't know if that should be changed, still looks very round and good to me.
I wonder how long they made the standard a for and when they began, need to find a goof Edison book

[Shane]

Hard gaskets can indeed make it sound tinny, but keep in mind that small horn you have also greatly contributes to tinny sound as well. Within reasonable limits, the larger the horn, the better the sound.

The main problems exhibited by a worn stylus are skipping grooves, and creating an "echo" effect as a worn stylus can tend to ride two grooves at once. If yours is doing neither on a good cylinder, I wouldn't worry about investing the money in a new stylus.

"Also while I have you here, the cylinders, how do you clean them? The ones I got with it are good, but they have all sorts of spots on them dust or it looks like a film, dirt maybe?"

I clean my cylinders with a simple wet rag. Just be very careful not to push too hard, as 2 minute cylinders are very delicate. I would also suggest using water on the rag as close to room temperature as you can get it. The shock of sudden temperature change can sometimes cause cylinders to crack.

What model of Edison Standard phonograph do you have? It may say model A, B, C, D, E, F or G on the data plate. If it doesn't (not all do), post a picture of your machine and one of us can give you more info. A great reference book is "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric Reiss.

[Victrolaman]

Shane,
Good Morning, thanks again for your knowledge and help. I will try that. I looked at my sapphire last night with a jewlers eye piece i have, and it looks very good nice and round there are no flat spots on it. Some of the other Cylinders i tried last nice played through perfect so either the ones that skipped are very dirty or work out. I will clean them tonight with room temp water and rag and see how that workls. I used a dry cloth yesterday to wipe one down and the cloth came bak very dirty, so i bet they need a good cleaning. I will take a few pics and post them for you guys to see. For 200 diollars and horn and 20 cylinders i tought it was a good deal
The cabinet on it is very good. the lid had a small water spot on it, i just took some 0000 steal wool and some Oak Howatrds restore a finish on it and you cant even tell it was there.
How long do the stylus last? i would emagine a sapphire lasting a long time but not sure.
The one i have is a 1903 Standard A.
The lady i got it from installed a new belt on it and gave me the original one to to have, wasnt broke so i dont know whay she changed it? maybe it was stretched out.

So now i need to hunt for some good Cylinders on the Bay and see what i can find. Will post some pics soon, thank you both for your help.

[edisonphonoworks]

Gaskets are very important rebuilding an Edison cylinder reproducer, however,most of the new gaskets, are not as soft as original ones, sometime I put two gaskets on top of the diaphragm, and when you screw the retainer ring down, it should be finger tight,just where it seals the diaphragm air tight, and no more, I admit, I sand around the circumferance of the first two rings on the diaphragm, with 600 grit sand paper on both sides being careful not to sand through, a thin outer edge helps the diaphragm to piston better on bass notes . I avoid the center as this has to be stiff, and is where the high notes are dispersed I have another step, which the amature should not try, I desolder the eylet, and dome the center upwards, to increase the treble response, but it is tricky, and I do this with new diaphragms, and then resolder the eylet in place. I wish that a one thousandths titanium diaphragm could be made with the above modifications. The 14" horn is not the best sounding one, however, I use a 56" brass concert horn. The linkage from stylus to diaphragm should be a perfect closed oval, and not touch anywhere in the hole that connects the diaphragm to the stylus bar.

[Victrolaman]

Great thanks for the tip. I ordere a new set of gaskets this morning, should be here in a few days. I will work on that this morning. I did notice though that when its in play mode and the lever is all the way over is plays faster, i go to adjust the speed with the knob but it dont help, if i go the way to make it play faster it plays very very fast.
Is there a way to adjust the Govenor so i can have the lever all the way over in play mode and set the speed right?
Now i need to play it with the lever in the middle to slow it down and i dont think this is the normal way. Should be able to put the lever all the way over in play mode and be able to slow it down with the speed knob. I was thinking the brake is worn down.
Any thoughts?

[Lucius1958]

Great thanks for the tip. I ordere a new set of gaskets this morning, should be here in a few days. I will work on that this morning. I did notice though that when its in play mode and the lever is all the way over is plays faster, i go to adjust the speed with the knob but it dont help, if i go the way to make it play faster it plays very very fast.
Is there a way to adjust the Govenor so i can have the lever all the way over in play mode and set the speed right?
Now i need to play it with the lever in the middle to slow it down and i dont think this is the normal way. Should be able to put the lever all the way over in play mode and be able to slow it down with the speed knob. I was thinking the brake is worn down.
Any thoughts?

Sounds like you might need a new spring on the speed control? Or perhaps you could readjust the position of the governor?

Bill