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Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:59 pm
by OddRomanian
Here is the first part:
viewtopic.php?t=59202
Thanks to anyone that helped me! I've been able to resolve a bit of this problem.
I took my soundbox to the gramophone repairman of my city (by the way, probably the kindest man I've ever met) and he told me the soundbox was absolutely fine and I shouldn't touch It.
After pondering for a few minutes he told me to oil the tonearm, if It is stiff.
It was stiff, and I did.
And after oiling the tonearm, my dust problem has resolved in at least 50%, if not more.
I still see a bit of dust at the end of the needle, but much less than before.
I wanted to ask, is a bit of shellac dust at the end normal? Can I finally say the problem is solved and continue playing my records?
Or is 0 dust the norm for every record and I should continue digging and worrying?
Many thanks!
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:07 pm
by gramophone-georg
I have an HMV no 32 gramophone that I upgraded to a 5B soundbox and I get a small bit of dust from records that are not meticulously clean. Gasket felts are new, the pivot point is lubed, the arm is lubed, tracking is correct. I have the back plate screws and needlebar pivot screws set JUST tight enough that the soundbox does not buzz and there is no loss of air pressure or vacuum. I am using NOS Tungsten soft tone needles. I need to be more vigilant about cleaning records, I suppose.
Just for fun, and as a process of elimination: Lift the soundbox and check your needle at a point in the record that the autobrake is not fully engaged yet. Then play it the rest of the way through and check it again if the needle is clean on the first check.
I also should check the 32 with a bubble level, now that i think about it. Stupid little things like this do make a difference. On my big Orthophonic changers I can pretty much tell by sound if they are not level right off. Victor always instructed repairmen to make sure the machine they are servicing was level.
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:17 am
by jamiegramo
As was mentioned in the previous thread make sure the tonearm is oiled not just at the base where the tonearm moves side to side but at the joint where it moves up and down. Also check the automatic brake doesn’t need a little oil as this can place resistance on the tonearm.
Perhaps Kalinka is sounding even better!
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:37 am
by gramophone-georg
Just as a matter of update- I leveled my 32 using a bubble level- it was a little off- and backed out all 4 screws on the 5B soundbox backing plate by ½ turn. All dust gone now and bass is significantly improved with no sacrifice to high end. It actually sounds way better with those screws backed off! Just something to try.
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:47 am
by OddRomanian
jamiegramo wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 9:17 am
As was mentioned in the previous thread make sure the tonearm is oiled not just at the base where the tonearm moves side to side but at the joint where it moves up and down. Also check the automatic brake doesn’t need a little oil as this can place resistance on the tonearm.
Perhaps Kalinka is sounding even better!
Did all, thank you!
Indeed It is : )
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:48 am
by OddRomanian
gramophone-georg wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2024 5:07 pm
I have an HMV no 32 gramophone that I upgraded to a 5B soundbox and I get a small bit of dust from records that are not meticulously clean. Gasket felts are new, the pivot point is lubed, the arm is lubed, tracking is correct. I have the back plate screws and needlebar pivot screws set JUST tight enough that the soundbox does not buzz and there is no loss of air pressure or vacuum. I am using NOS Tungsten soft tone needles. I need to be more vigilant about cleaning records, I suppose.
Just for fun, and as a process of elimination: Lift the soundbox and check your needle at a point in the record that the autobrake is not fully engaged yet. Then play it the rest of the way through and check it again if the needle is clean on the first check.
I also should check the 32 with a bubble level, now that i think about it. Stupid little things like this do make a difference. On my big Orthophonic changers I can pretty much tell by sound if they are not level right off. Victor always instructed repairmen to make sure the machine they are servicing was level.
Thank you!
I tried that test and I am not fully sure If It is random or not but I noticed a bit more dust when playing with the autobrake on
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:51 am
by OddRomanian
gramophone-georg wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 3:37 am
Just as a matter of update- I leveled my 32 using a bubble level- it was a little off- and backed out all 4 screws on the 5B soundbox backing plate by ½ turn. All dust gone now and bass is significantly improved with no sacrifice to high end. It actually sounds way better with those screws backed off! Just something to try.
Oh wow, maybe I should!
How do I level It? Should I try that too or did you only mean to try and back the screws? I could try the latter and tell you how It goes!
But there is a small detail I want to mention.
When I took the soundbox to the expert he told me It was absolutely fine, but someone had remove the backplate and put It upside down when putting It back in, but It is fine
Should that pose any problems If I back the screws a bit?
Thank you
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:14 am
by Orchorsol
Better than levelling with a spirit level/bubble level is levelling dynamically (again, this is one of the tips on the 'using BCNs' page of the Burmese Colour Needles website) using a record with areas of “dead wax” (no grooves): the tonearm should neither swing inward nor outward. Adjust by adding shims under the cabinet feet (or under the motorboard).
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 12:58 pm
by OddRomanian
Orchorsol wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:14 am
Better than levelling with a spirit level/bubble level is levelling dynamically (again, this is one of the tips on the 'using BCNs' page of the Burmese Colour Needles website) using a record with areas of “dead wax” (no grooves): the tonearm should neither swing inward nor outward. Adjust by adding shims under the cabinet feet (or under the motorboard).
Thank you!
I always check and the tonearm never swings.
Re: Black / Shellac Dust After Playback, Part 2
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:01 am
by FellowCollector
OddRomanian wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2024 4:59 pm
I still see a bit of dust at the end of the needle, but much less than before.
I wanted to ask, is a bit of shellac dust at the end normal?
No. At least not from my perspective. I would expect dust and various other airborne (etc.) particulate accumulating on the end of the needle after playing soiled or dusty but otherwise good condition records with a new needle made at appropriate specifications. But black shellac particulate accumulating on the end of the needle after playing an otherwise good condition record is abnormal and suggests inordinate groove wear. Again, presuming the particulate is indeed from the record surface composition (shellac) as you mentioned. Ideally, a tonearm must be able to move laterally (and vertically) absolutely freely within the manufacturer's tolerance. If yours doesn't then this could certainly be a contributor to the shellac dust.