How many records per full wind?

[mjbarnes]

Frow writes that a Model A Triumph was advertised as playing 14 (two-minute) records at a winding.

What are owners' experiences today? My Triumph D2 did not quite make it through 4 four-minute cylinders without slowing down. Of course it will continue to spin for a long time after that.

[CarlosV]

What are owners' experiences today? My Triumph D2 did not quite make it through 4 four-minute cylinders without slowing down. Of course it will continue to spin for a long time after that.

Mine plays well over two 4-minute runs, but I never tried to wind it fully - I am afraid of breaking one of the springs, that are a nightmare to replace. But I would not give much credence to the advertisement claims, especially after 100 years of added friction caused by dust, old grease and general wear that contribute significantly to the reduction of the playing time.

[jamiegramo]

I understand that the springs can become tired.

[Lah Ca]

It is my understanding that springs eventually conform to their confinement in their drums. If you look on Youtube for videos of people putting new springs into drums, you will see that the new springs energetically uncoil into long flat steel ribbons and that these do not go willingly or easily into their drums--it can all be a bit volatile and exciting. The cleaning, re-installation, and re-lubrication of old springs is somewhat less exciting, or so I am told.

I was discussing one of my machines, one mostly in good working order, with a highly experienced fellow CAPS member. The machine, all original, serviced in the distant past, struggles to play 12" records, especially badly worn ones or electrically recorded ones. It will play only one 10" record per wind up. I asked my CAPS friend about replacing the spring. He advised leaving the machine alone--just don't play 12" records on it--problem solved. It is a hundred-year-old-plus machine. it is all original. It has been well-loved, used and used and used. It works quite well (although not perfectly). Why introduce the stress of a new spring to its worn mechanics? He said that the original spring if it were now taken out now would probably uncoil slightly to a size not a whole lot larger than the drum.

[JerryVan]

Frow writes that a Model A Triumph was advertised as playing 14 (two-minute) records at a winding.

What are owners' experiences today? My Triumph D2 did not quite make it through 4 four-minute cylinders without slowing down. Of course it will continue to spin for a long time after that.

I would say you're doing fine with 4 records, (almost). I try to wind most of my machines just enough to get through a cylinder or disc. Old springs and old gears... Why over stress them. I have a 117 year old car. It was advertised as having a top speed of 40 mph. I would never ever attempt that. I'm happy to go along at maybe 25, tops. Why try to break it?

[drh]

Interesting question, so I tried the experiment. My Triumph is a Model B with the 2/4 adapter kit, horizontal carriage/cygnet horn, and a Model O trowel weight reproducer. I wound it very tight, but not quite all the way to stop, and started playing 2-minute wax cylinders. I took speed readings with a digital tachometer at intervals while the machine was playing; the figures are "about" because it wobbles by a tenth of an RPM or so up and down. Here's what I got:

To start, it was going about 157 RPM. I figured that was close enough to 160 for these purposes.

After 5 cylinders (at the outset of playing no. 6), the speed had dropped to about 156 RPM.

After 10 cylinders (at the outset of playing no. 11), the speed had dropped to about 153 RPM.

It ran out of spring midway through the 12th cylinder. Just before it started obviously slowing down, it was doing 148 RPM.

Until the end, the loss of speed was gradual enough that it wasn't evident to my ears, at least, although it doubtless would have irritated someone with perfect pitch.

[dzavracky]

My triumph will play for about 30 mins on a full wind. I tested it with blue amberols. Was able to play 6 without issue and it slowed down about half way through the 7th. I haven’t done anything to my motor except oil it.

Cheers,
David

[mjbarnes]

The Edison springs are still pretty springy.

[JerryVan]

The Edison springs are still pretty springy.

Just curious, was this from a previous disassembly, or did you disassemble it since starting this thread?

[mjbarnes]

I removed, cleaned, and greased the springs a few months ago. Putting them back in the barrel there was always one tricky moment just before the centre dropped in: resistance and me wondering if I was stuck holding the spring down forever. Then the final section always slid in.