How important is it to change the original Rubber flange?

[Victrolaman]

How important is it to change the original Rubber back flange on a Orthophonic reproducer? does this increase sound quality and also what do you inseart and seal the new flange in with any thoughts or opinions id be interested in seeing and im sure other memebers of the forum would beneifit from the info to, thanks!

[OrthoSean]

It's very important to change them if you want your records to last. Hard old rubber flanges on ANY reproducer will hinder it's ability to flex and you'll get much more record wear, it's really that simple.

Sean

[Victrolaman]

Sean,
Always good to see your replies, Especially with orthophnic stuff, I thought this would be a good post for alot of people in the forum, there are alot of new members to that im sure would benefit from things like this, though simple and inexpensive to do will make their experience in sound quality of the machine and like you said save on theor records.
Myself that and changing the ball bearings in a orthophonic reproducer i get i always do, as the others have been in there 80+ years.
Thanks for the reply Sean!

[Jerry B.]

Interesting answer Sean. I didn't realize there was so much flex. I expected your answer to be aimed at stopping air leaks. I've learned something. Thanks, Jerry

[Victrolaman]

Jerry,
Its great to see posts like this for simple stuff. Because alot of people in the forum who have these machines i bet have the original old dried out hard one on there still and ruining their records and loosing sound quality. So sometimes just changing these easy simple things makes a huge difference.

[OrthoSean]

I could be scientific, but it really is that simple. Rubber parts were soft when they were new, over the years they dry out and get hard. Of course, air leaks are another factor as well. Last night I was working on an XVI that I haven't rebuilt the Exhibition for yet and I went to pull a rebuilt gold one out of my "spares" box that I had done probably 20 years ago and put into it's original box and left there. I noticed right away that it had a perfect original back flange on it, no cracks or warps or anything like that, so just for fun I played a really mint Henry Burr Victor (nothing of interest to me) with a fresh needle and the old flange. When it was over, I took the needle out and looked at it under a scope and while there wasn't any black dust, the wear was only on one side of the tip. I put a new flange on and sealed it with a little plumber's grease and played another acoustic. When I checked the needle tip (again, a new needle) this time, there was wear on both sides as it should be, so the flex here is important.

I've rebuilt a few #4s lately, two Victors which has rock hard isolators in them and two HMV ones. For some reason, the HMV ones still had relatively soft rubber in them. I left those in place, as they were still as soft as the replacement ones are.

I never used to think replacing these flanges made any difference in record wear until I sent my brass ortho out to be done, when I got it back, I was really astonished by how much less wear I was seeing on my records and this has remained a necessary practice ever since.

Sean

[Victrolaman]

Wow Sean, eccellent reply I never realised they made that huge of a difference. Alot of people see all that black stuff at the end of the needle and think its just dirt or dust when in fact some of it may but i bet 90% of it is the persons voice leaving the record lol..
I rebuilt a number 2 vic not to long back and i noticed after i put the reproducer on the arm, it was still loose? for some reason i couldnt get it tight, the ittle scrws were all tight. I dont know if the flange insert was just a bit to small for the end of the arm or not, i took it off put another new one on and it was fine. The other new one although the scres on both sides were tight it will wiggled back and forth a bit.

[barnettrp21122]

I'd like to know how to remove the dried or gooped-up rubber without mangling your fingertips or surrounding metal. I'd given up trying to remove orthophonic flanges. Also, what to do if the insert is too large or small? It seems too that the hardness of the replacement rubber (from Ron Sitko) wouldn't allow much flex at all. Thanks.
Bob

[OrthoSean]

Hey Bob,

I use a hairdryer and a small screwdriver to pick them out. It can take awhile, but they come out eventually and you won't gouge anything up that way.

Ron's flanges are a little tight at times, so I use plumber's grease and a little heat (hairdryer), and usually they pop right into place. I don't think I've ever had one be too small, but a dab of bathtub silicone (the clear flexible stuff) would do just fine.

Ron's flanges are soft enough, I think. Anything is certainly better than cement hard old flanges, IMHO.

Sean

[Victrolaman]

Sean,
So after you get the old one out rub a little plumbers grease i have some around the new flange and put it in? where does the silicone come into place?