Climax, Columbia, or Victor Record?

[Jmcmahan67]

I would like your opinion on the following question. Is the record pictured below a Climax, a Columbia, or a victor?

Argument for Columbia:
1. It says Columbia on the label…. Duhhhh…

Argument for Climax:
1. It has no patent dates on the label which is something you find on all subsequent Columbia records.
2. It has “Pat App’d For” on the back, which is not found on later Columbia records but is found on Climax.

Argument for Victor:
1. It has the VTM stamp in the dead wax at 3 o’clock. This means that the matrices for this record and the Burt Company were owned by Eldridge R Johnson of the Victor talking machine company when this record was pressed in early 1902. As many of you know, Eldridge Johnson bought the Burt company from Globe Records in early 1902 which, at the time, was Columbia’s major, if not only, supplier of records. This forced Columbia into patent cross licensing agreements with Victor, and Eldridge sold the Burt Company back to Columbia sometime around mid 1902 for the same price that he paid.

Your opinions are welcome.

John

[Pathe Logical]

Nice record!

In my opinion, this is simply an example of the an early fall of 1902 (approx) Columbia-labeled record (known as a "Pre-conditions" or "Ring Label"). This earliest variety of the Columbia Ring Label didn't show patent dates on its face at the 6:00 position, unlike the very next variation of this label style. Refer to Sherman and Nauck's Note The Notes, @1998, pg. 17.

“Pat App’d For” can be found on the reverse of a few Columbia records using even later labels (refer to discussion in the pic attached below). The first two label images in the pic below do show the May 4, 1886 and Dec. 10, 1901 patent info at 6:00 within their label's silver ring. As Jack Stanley mentions in the post in the pic below: "VTM would indicate only a Climax not a Columbia recording. Although Columbia pressed old Climax records till 1903 -04".

You don't indicate if the recording is announced. If announced, the recording could be attributed to Columbia (or possibly Climax). Some pertinent info about your record can be found here: https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... yt0=Search

[Jmcmahan67]

Thanks very much for your excellent analysis. You make a great point about how the record is announced. I should’ve added that it is announced as being played by the climax band.

John

[Pathe Logical]

You're welcome, John! These early Climax/Columbia days can be confusing!

[epigramophone]

I was similarly confused when I acquired this Climax record, but thanks to this forum all was made clear :

viewtopic.php?p=272513&hilit=Climax#p272513