The ultimate colonial HMV "130"?

[Steve]

I recall I might have shown this curiosity many years ago but today I rediscovered it hiding in my collection.

I believe it is Indian and the cabinet probably had another purpose before being turned into a gramophone. Quite unbelievably it has the No. 52 oil bath motor inside which was originally gold plated. Due to the thickness of the timber, the motor and tonearm have been countersunk into the motorboard.

The grille has been repaired / replaced at some point but it is very much an oddball piece in a high quality cabinet. The horn I believe is from the 130 / 113. The arm rest is certainly from the 113. I think the tonearm is from a 163? Somewhat amusingly the oil pump lever is a re-purposed 102 speed control arm.

Has anyone seen anything like this before. I'm fairly sure it must be a one off.

[epigramophone]

The early "Scroll" lid transfer, which I have seen before on a c.1930 Indian machine, certainly suggests an Indian origin.

[CarlosV]

Quite an oddball! It has the grill door, arm rest and horn similar to the 113, but otherwise it is quite unique, particularly in the use of the oil bath motor. All parts are Gramophone, differently from most Indian machines that mix up Gramophone parts with German and Swiss components. It may be genuine, did you check if the varnish is consistent with the materials and techniques of the period? In any case, it looks very nice and probably has a nice sound as well.

[Steve]

I'm sure it is quite genuine but what exactly I cannot be certain! I bought it from Jose Pascual who has a shop in Saragossa, Spain and sometimes offers genuine Spanish HMV machines and other continental machines on Ebay. If you ever look at his website, he does offer quite a lot of genuinely rare and (some incredibly pricey) original antiques but gramophones are one of his particular passions.

The cabinet was thoroughly repaired and finish restored after he found it in an antiques store in Madrid. Apparently it was caked in dust with other stuff piled on top of it, sat on the floor at the back of a shop. The veneer was lifting all over and the original finish very scuffed and scratched.

He bought it instantly and eagerly sent me photos asking me what I made of it and if it might be of interest. He thought it might be a unique Spanish machine (I'd recently purchased a HMV 13C from him) but I confidently stated my belief that it was an Indian colonel machine. He subsequently got his furniture restorer to reglue the veneer and restore the finish. I think he did a very respectable job to be fair but it did cost a pretty penny.

I'm not expecting it to turn up in an old catalogue any day soon but it certainly looks incredibly impressive as a piece of furniture and as you say, it does sound fantastic. If it was simply assembled using reclaimed parts, why would it have the decal in the lid? It is odd though given that the oil bath motor appears to have had the gilding purposefully removed in places and the oil lever is not original to it. Perhaps it was all rusty and someone has been slightly overzealous cleaning it up? I think it's definitely been well used in a previous life anyway.

There appears to have been a lock mechanism fitted at some time to secure the front pull down flap. The cut-out for it in the edge of the "door" has been professionally and carefully infilled by someone.

Does anyone have an idea what timber has been used for the carcass and the veneers? It isn't teak.

The inside of the horn was originally been painted white too, although it has faded to a slight cream colour now.

[CarlosV]

I am familiar with the website you mentioned, Steve. Every now and then it shows some very nice machines, but the prices are stratospheric! Indeed it was very well restored, and I agree that it is probably genuine. Over the years a number of unique Indian HMV machines have emerged, followed by collectors jumping to claim they are forgeries, just to eat humble pie when they are shown to be bona fide. I recall the 130 with legs, as unique as this one, and another one that you posted some years ago, all single pieces - until another one shows up in a random place like Spain.

[OrthoFan]

Hi Steve:

Is this where you bought it from?

https://www.antiguedades.es/en/gramopho ... -1930.html

[Steve]

Hi Steve:

Is this where you bought it from?

https://www.antiguedades.es/en/gramopho ... -1930.html

That's it! I hadn't realised the machine ever made it to his website as I bought it straight away, so thanks for the link! Interestingly it was described as a colonel model, so maybe he added it shortly after I'd suggested it was an Indian machine.

[Steve]

I am familiar with the website you mentioned, Steve. Every now and then it shows some very nice machines, but the prices are stratospheric! Indeed it was very well restored, and I agree that it is probably genuine. Over the years a number of unique Indian HMV machines have emerged, followed by collectors jumping to claim they are forgeries, just to eat humble pie when they are shown to be bona fide. I recall the 130 with legs, as unique as this one, and another one that you posted some years ago, all single pieces - until another one shows up in a random place like Spain.

Indeed. Looking at Jose's website now, what do you make of the Thorens horn machine with very light (almost orange colour) wooden horn?

[jamiegramo]

Steve, thanks for posting the pictures of this fascinating machine and giving its recent history. The geometric patterns are often a feature of Indian parquetry.

I suppose it all boils down to whether the transfer is original to the machine. If the wood on the inside of the lid matches the rest of the cabinet then there is no reason to suppose that the panel with the transfer has been taken from another machine. The transfer is misprinted on the picture but that may not be unusual for Indian machines and unless it was applied by the Spanish dealer it seems likely it was always there.

This could be a special commission from the factory for a machine with a luxurious parquetry cabinet and top of the range motor, using what they had in stock. It seems the Calcutta factory may have been less rigid than Hayes.

[Steve]

Steve, thanks for posting the pictures of this fascinating machine and giving its recent history. The geometric patterns are often a feature of Indian parquetry.

I suppose it all boils down to whether the transfer is original to the machine. If the wood on the inside of the lid matches the rest of the cabinet then there is no reason to suppose that the panel with the transfer has been taken from another machine. The transfer is misprinted on the picture but that may not be unusual for Indian machines and unless it was applied by the Spanish dealer it seems likely it was always there.

This could be a special commission from the factory for a machine with a luxurious parquetry cabinet and top of the range motor, using what they had in stock. It seems the Calcutta factory may have been less rigid than Hayes.

Thanks for your comments, Jamie. The lid has definitely always been part of this cabinet. The decal isn't the best and it has been applied over the finish not underneath. There is obvious wear to it around the edges. However, if it was a new transfer (I really don't think it is) it would probably look much better than this as new transfers are readily available from a seller in Peru, which are absolutely first class quality, as good as the originals.

Sometimes we have to step back a little from these things and ask ourselves honestly if this was a "fake", why would anyone bother to make it a oversized table model as opposed to say, a far more profitable horn model? It's not as though it is the most desirable or earliest type of gramophone. I also don't believe anyone would squander such a sought after motor in this, a humble table machine, either.

The fact that it has been restored due to being found in less than perfect condition, also throws water on that idea for me.