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An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:41 pm
by mrvic2
Hello everyone!
Today at the phonograph show in PA, I was able to pick up an Amberola 75. And I have two major questions.
1.
The machine works lovely - Except that it skips. In certain points in the beginning of records, it will skip once or twice, but near the end of records, it will skip and stay in the same groove until moved. I understand that the part that rides in the feed screw can be adjusted, is this something that could fix it, and if so, how should I go about doing it?
2.
What are some things that a collector new to Cylinders should know? General matinence tips, things you wish you knew when starting out, besides my knowledge I bring from 78s, basically all I know about this machine is that it plays Amberols.
Any help is appreciated - and if you wish, check out my Part II post in the Music tab for my record questions.
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:53 pm
by Phono-Phan
Most of the time, the skipping comes from the reproducer weight not being able to move side to side freely. The pivot screw needs to be loosened and freed up.
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:15 pm
by mrvic2
which screw is that?
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:46 pm
by JohnM
mrvic2 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:41 pm
Hello everyone!
Today at the phonograph show in PA, I was able to pick up an Amberola 75. And I have two major questions.
1.
The machine works lovely - Except that it skips. In certain points in the beginning of records, it will skip once or twice, but near the end of records, it will skip and stay in the same groove until moved. I understand that the part that rides in the feed screw can be adjusted, is this something that could fix it, and if so, how should I go about doing it?
2.
What are some things that a collector new to Cylinders should know? General matinence tips, things you wish you knew when starting out, besides my knowledge I bring from 78s, basically all I know about this machine is that it plays Amberols.
Any help is appreciated - and if you wish, check out my Part II post in the Music tab for my record questions.
Actually, it plays Blue Amberols (and Royal Purple Amberols) or any 4-minute celluloid cylinders. It won’t play “Amberols”, as while they are 4-minute cylinders, they are molded ‘wax’ and are played with sapphire stylus reproducers. The heavy weight and conical diamond stylus of the Diamond C reproducer on an Amberola 75 would immediately gouge an Amberol cylinder.
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:33 pm
by Lucius1958
mrvic2 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:15 pm
which screw is that?
That's the screw right at the front end of the reproducer.
Also, some other things that might cause it to hang up in the middle: gunk on the carriage rod or the straight edge; stiffness in reproducer/horn joint; missing or damaged horn suspension spring.
- Bill
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:02 pm
by mrvic2
Lucius1958 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:33 pm
mrvic2 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 9:15 pm
which screw is that?
That's the screw right at the front end of the reproducer.
Also, some other things that might cause it to hang up in the middle: gunk on the carriage rod or the straight edge; stiffness in reproducer/horn joint; missing or damaged horn suspension spring.
- Bill
I checked, and the screw is loose. I've already cleaned much of the carriage rod, especially where it skips the most. the carriage moves freely when not sitting on the feedscrew & I'm not sure if the horn spring is damaged, so here's a picture to show you (of what i assume is the horn suspension spring), although I doubt it is causing it since the carriage moves so smoothly.
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:41 pm
by Lucius1958
If the reproducer weight moves freely, the carriage moves smoothly without resistance, and the spring is providing the right tension, then you can check the feed screw/half nut connection. There might be gunk or damage there; or in case of misalignment, there are a couple of small screws that can be adjusted. Let us know how you fare.
- Bill
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:01 am
by Phono-Phan
Does the reproducer rotate freely in the horn? Have you taken it out? Sometimes the pot metal swells up and restricts that movement as well.
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:22 am
by JerryVan
Pay very close attention to the movement of the carriage as it plays. Notice especially if the movement of the carriage pauses at the same time you notice the skipping. If it does stall, then the engagement with the feedscrew is slipping. This is usually remedied with a small adjustment. The slipping can also be caused by resistance in the movement of the carriage. Stiffness can be caused by lack of oil on the carriage slides or tightness between the reproducer neck and the horn. As to the suspension spring, if it's pulling too hard, it can actually cause the horn and carriage to lift. If the carriage lifts even a little bit, it can cause the halfnut to disengage with the feedscrew. Last, for those who are not accustomed to playing cylinders, it's not an uncommon thing to not push the cylinder onto the mandrel tight enough. If it's not snug enough, the record can drift off of the mandrel and get out of sync with the reproducer. That would tend to happen near the end of the tune, as you're experiencing.
(I know I've restated some points that have already been made. Not ignoring this excellent, previous advice
)
Re: An Introduction to Cylinders - Part I
Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2025 11:32 am
by mrvic2
JerryVan wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:22 am
Pay very close attention to the movement of the carriage as it plays. Notice especially if the movement of the carriage pauses at the same time you notice the skipping. If it does stall, then the engagement with the feedscrew is slipping. This is usually remedied with a small adjustment. The slipping can also be caused by resistance in the movement of the carriage. Stiffness can be caused by lack of oil on the carriage slides or tightness between the reproducer neck and the horn. As to the suspension spring, if it's pulling too hard, it can actually cause the horn and carriage to lift. If the carriage lifts even a little bit, it can cause the halfnut to disengage with the feedscrew. Last, for those who are not accustomed to playing cylinders, it's not an uncommon thing to not push the cylinder onto the mandrel tight enough. If it's not snug enough, the record can drift off of the mandrel and get out of sync with the reproducer. That would tend to happen near the end of the tune, as you're experiencing.
(I know I've restated some points that have already been made. Not ignoring this excellent, previous advice
)
It's definitely the engagement, one of the first things I noticed was how it was lifting out of the groove on the exact same point on every record. maybe this would also account for the slight skipping in the beginning, if it's too far out of sync it would probably cause problems on both sides, right? I'll try to adjust it