Poet and Peasant Overture - please help me identify this record

[MrRom92]

There are many recordings of the Poet and Peasant Overture, I’m sure. I would like to identify one I heard a long time ago, that recently came to mind.

Nearly 30 years ago my father gave me a cassette on which he dubbed many records. He did this regularly, however this tape was notable as it started off with a 78. I think this was the first time in my life I ever consciously listened to a 78, even though I was only listening to a recording of it and not playing the disc directly.

I think I can fairly credit it with kickstarting the fascination for me. I can still remember the way it ended with the needle still going around the runout groove for a bit. I played the tape many times over the years to hear it, as well as the other records on that tape, though it’s long gone now.


I have no way of knowing exactly what recording of the P&P Overture it was, but I think I would know it if I heard it. And of course I’d like to seek out a copy after positively identifying it!


I never physically saw the disc myself. So I can’t go based on label, or disc size, etc,


I do think it may have been a single sided disc; as I think the other side would also have been dubbed to tape if it were present! This may narrow things down some, but it may be a red herring as well.


Anyway, I guess let’s all share whichever 78-era recordings of this composition we’re familiar with.

[CarlosV]

This will be a tough search: there are hundreds of recordings of the Poet and Peasant Overture, starting with cylinders and all the way through the hi fi era. On the other hand, since the arrangements are mostly similar, maybe any one of these records will match your aural memory.

[MrRom92]

This will be a tough search: there are hundreds of recordings of the Poet and Peasant Overture, starting with cylinders and all the way through the hi fi era. On the other hand, since the arrangements are mostly similar, maybe any one of these records will match your aural memory.

I can say definitively that none of the ones I’ve heard so far have been a match. Only having a decades old aural memory to go off of is making things harder though!
Luckily, I have heard it enough times that I do at least have a very clear memory of the recording.

[MrRom92]

Going through the discs with available recordings on DAHR, I found 3 that are significantly closer than others I’ve heard in terms of the arrangement. Though I still don’t think any of these are “the one” - it’s a step in the right direction for sure.

Whatever the record is; if not one of these, it would be a very close match to one of these


https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... t_overture


https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... t_overture


https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... t_Overture

[Damfino59]

Anyway, I guess let’s all share whichever 78-era recordings of this composition we’re familiar with.
[/quote]

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... yt0=Search

I’m only familiar with the military band versions of this. Have you tried YouTube?

The Sousa’s & Arthur Pryor’s come to mind as they were the most popular during the Victrola era.

Glenn

[MrRom92]

Anyway, I guess let’s all share whichever 78-era recordings of this composition we’re familiar with.

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... yt0=Search

I’m only familiar with the military band versions of this. Have you tried YouTube?

The Sousa’s & Arthur Pryor’s come to mind as they were the most popular during the Victrola era.

Glenn
[/quote]

Thanks Glenn, yeah I’ve been going through that list, at least the ones with linked recordings attached to them. I can try searching YouTube for the others.

The one that comes closest to what I remember is the Prince’s Orchestra recording from 1915, on Columbia, although the thing that gives me pause is that the violin sounds a little… “tired” for lack of better description.

This of course could be down to anything. Faltering memory not the least of it. Playback equipment used on either transfer as well. I wonder if a slight speed up might perk things up a bit and lock things in to how I remember it. Otherwise the general cadence, dynamics and tone of playing seem to be a great fit.


Of course it is also difficult to remember past things that would have been unique to my copy, ie. Distortion and wear patterns in the record, volume fluctuations in the tape, etc. that have invariably become part of the memory for me. But this is so close that it may as well be it, and if it’s not I might want to seek out a copy anyway!

[Inigo]

Maybe Prince's orchestra made more versions, elder ones, other takes. It was a very popular selection to be recorded since the very beginning, as other colleagues have said. And at the beginning the record pressing process was simpler, and as metal parts worn out, new takes by the same artists were made to continue pressing the popular records. DAHR lists many takes of the same recording.

[MrRom92]

Maybe Prince's orchestra made more versions, elder ones, other takes. It was a very popular selection to be recorded since the very beginning, as other colleagues have said. And at the beginning the record pressing process was simpler, and as metal parts worn out, new takes by the same artists were made to continue pressing the popular records. DAHR lists many takes of the same recording.

This is true, well in this case they only list 3 takes and both ½ are listed as “unknown”, with 3 being marked master, so I find it unlikely that either of the first two were issued. But if anyone here has evidence of the other takes in their own collection, that would be something.
It seems that A5750 was in the catalog for many yearrs, I’ve been able to find copies across no less than 4 Columbia label variations.

[drh]

Looking at my own collection's acoustic versions, I have it by Frederick Stock and the Chicago SO and on Victor as being by the Victor Concert Or., crediting an arranger named Robert, and on Edison with the ubiquitous American Symphony Or., although I'd be surprised if that last were the one on your long-ago cassette. All three of these are two-sided versions, but note that the break always comes at a point that would not necessarily be obvious if someone dubbed both sides back-to-back. Both the Victor (https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... ctor_35509) and Columbia (Stock https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... mbia_A5991) have playable links on DAHR. Note that the Stock is at the correct pitch but the Victor is transferred sharp--probably somebody copied it at 78 when it should have been done at 75 or 76, something like that. Of course, unless he had a variable speed turntable and was alert to the vagaries of acoustic record playback speeds, your dad probably would have done likewise when he dubbed your cassette and was copying the Victor. If it was a Columbia--Stock or, for that matter, Prince--by the same reasoning it probably would have been a bit flat, as he would have copied it at 78 when it was likely recorded at 80 RPM.

[MrRom92]

Looking at my own collection's acoustic versions, I have it by Frederick Stock and the Chicago SO and on Victor as being by the Victor Concert Or., crediting an arranger named Robert, and on Edison with the ubiquitous American Symphony Or., although I'd be surprised if that last were the one on your long-ago cassette. All three of these are two-sided versions, but note that the break always comes at a point that would not necessarily be obvious if someone dubbed both sides back-to-back. Both the Victor (https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... ctor_35509) and Columbia (Stock https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/ ... mbia_A5991) have playable links on DAHR. Note that the Stock is at the correct pitch but the Victor is transferred sharp--probably somebody copied it at 78 when it should have been done at 75 or 76, something like that. Of course, unless he had a variable speed turntable and was alert to the vagaries of acoustic record playback speeds, your dad probably would have done likewise when he dubbed your cassette and was copying the Victor. If it was a Columbia--Stock or, for that matter, Prince--by the same reasoning it probably would have been a bit flat, as he would have copied it at 78 when it was likely recorded at 80 RPM.

Yeah, I don’t think my father was much of a “78 guy” as far as I know - this tape was a bit of an outlier as far as it actually having one, that’s why it was so novel and unusual to me. I doubt his playback equipment was anything wonderful either. If it ran at anything other than 78.26, I’d safely bet it wasn’t intentional!

The tape began with this one record, and the song ended with the chunk-chunk-chunk of the stylus at the end of the record where the typical end of part one break point would be. And then onto something entirely different, an LP from the 60’s. No part 2 of the composition.

I’m now thinking it’s much more likely that the record was one of these acoustic era double-sided versions, and he just dubbed that one side only, for whatever reason.


Oddly enough, what recently reminded me of the tape (and the other records on that tape) was the LP that followed it. I knew what the LP was, as he gave me that actual record. It was in bad shape and not a particularly good pressing to begin with, and it never saw proper release outside of that on CD, tape, etc, so that crummy LP (or cassette copy thereof) was what I was stuck with for years.
As luck would have it, I recently managed to come into the original master tape for that LP. Talk about an upgrade!

It reminded me of that 78 that preceded it, and got me to thinking how in all these years of collecting I never managed to positively ID or find a copy of the one that kinda started it all for me.