The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Greetings. Most of my brown wax cylinders did not come in cases (or at least not their original cases), making the Columbias, at least, hard to date. I understand that you can determine a date range for Columbias based on the located cited in the opening announcement; for instance, George P. kindly posted, in response to another query of mine, that Columbia started using "New York and Paris" in their announcements in 1898, though I don't know how long they continued to do so. When did they just use "New York"? I also have at least one or two that say "Washington," which I assume are the earliest, but I don't know the date range for those, either. Can anyone educate me?

Now, on to my main questions for this post. While most of my brown wax cylinders look more or less like the one in the first picture (which slight variations of shape and greater variations of color), a relatively small number of my them look different in that they have the title inscribed on the cylinder itself, as you can see in the second and third pictures. I assume these are Columbias, as I have black wax Columbia cylinders that look very similar to these; and I assume they're late brown wax for that same reason. Are both assumptions correct? If so, what years would these be from, approximately?

A few more questions, while I'm asking:

1. When did the various record companies stop making and selling pre-recorded brown wax cylinders?

2. I have at least a few cylinders (again, I believe all Columbias) that are dark brown in color but which can be played with an Edison C or a Columbia Lyric reproducer. Can anyone tell me anything about these?

3. Can one tell anything about the age and manufacturer of brown wax cylinders based upon color, shape, etc.?

4. Why is it that the overwhelming majority of brown wax cylinders that I have found in the wild are Columbias? Did Columbia just make and sell so many more of them? Is it that Edisons don't age as well? Is it geographical? Something else? Or just random luck?

Thank you!

I am also interested in the answers to your questions. I have my dad's brown wax collection which I am dreading to do anything with because I'm afraid to damage them, so I have no idea what they are.

A couple of people have messaged me asking if I could post pictures of a couple of the dark brown cylinders I mentioned in point #2 of the original post. Here they are. The first is numbered 31957, which is dated (by one source) 1902. The second is numbered 31648, dated 1901 by the same source. Curiously, both have superscript numbers after the catalog number -- for 31957, as you can see, it's 10, and for 31648 it's 7. Would this be a designation that this was the 7th or 10th cylinder to be recorded off the master? I should note that neither of these has a song title engraved at the rim.

Finally, I have quite a few brown cylinders that look like the one in the last picture -- note the white stripes at both ends. What are these? I don't believe they're home-recorded blanks.

In response to another PM, both of the dark brown cylinders pictured above are Columbias.

If I recall correctly, the cylinders with titles in the dead wax were the first molded cylinders sold by Columbia, around 1901/2. They were recorded at a higher speed (@144 rpm?); the wax was superheated, for a harder surface.

A 'Washington' announcement would be pre-1897, I believe: pretty early Columbia!

- Bill

Thanks, Bill. Do you know if those 1901/1902 molded cylinders can safely be played with an Edison C reproducer or a Columbia Lyric reproducer?

Also, I should note that the brown cylinder with the whitish ends is a Columbia. I believe that others I have that look similar are Edisons.

Finally, a correction: My pre-Paris Columbia cylinder announcements say "...the Columbia Phonograph Company of New York City," not "...of New York." Anyone have any idea when those would date from? (I believe they added Paris in 1898.) And when did they drop the cities and just say "Columbia Records"?

I've searched for articles on this subject, but have come up empty; if anyone has any links to share, I would appreciate it.

Hope this helps explain the announcements.

Rich Gordon

Thanks, Rich! Very helpful, indeed.

Zenger wrote: Sun Oct 19, 2025 6:39 pm Thanks, Bill. Do you know if those 1901/1902 molded cylinders can safely be played with an Edison C reproducer or a Columbia Lyric reproducer?

Also, I should note that the brown cylinder with the whitish ends is a Columbia. I believe that others I have that look similar are Edisons.

Finally, a correction: My pre-Paris Columbia cylinder announcements say "...the Columbia Phonograph Company of New York City," not "...of New York." Anyone have any idea when those would date from? (I believe they added Paris in 1898.) And when did they drop the cities and just say "Columbia Records"?

I wouldn’t recommend playing any brown wax cylinders with a model c. I use my columbia q but there were edison reproducers designed for brown wax. I have a brown wax columbia cylinder from around 1898-1900 that doesn’t announce any cities.