An excursion into Pathéphone land

[FloridaClay]

Hello all,

Well, I have found myself off on another little side excursion. I found an offer I couldn’t refuse on Craigslist recently and wound up with a mahogany Pathéphone model 75 and more than 100 fairly decent regular lateral cut 78s, from the WW I through the Korean War eras, for under $100. The case cleaned up nicely (see bottom pic) and the motor seems strong and in good condition; no thumps, clunks, etc., as it plays. Other than the reproducer, there are only a couple of minor things left to do—turntable felt and brake leather replacement. (The brake had the remains of an old pencil eraser on it when I got it. LOL)

However, the reproducer on it is, I am guessing, an aftermarket piece. (See center pic.) It has no manufacturer’s identification on it whatever and is of potmetal construction and plays regular lateral cut 78s. It needs gaskets, etc., but is really not worth the bother as it is badly cracked.

My intention is to add this machine to my little collection as an example of a vertical cut record Pathé and I would like to put it back as original as possible. Contemporary advertising for this model stressed that it had the Pathé ball sapphire needle, used for Pathé vertical cut records, but also that it would play regular lateral cut 78s. Sure enough one just showed up on eBay that has a double reproducer. (See top pic.) I notice, though, that the back of the tone arm on the one on eBay has a little hump than mine does not have, so I am wondering if the design may have changed over the life of this model; perhaps with a different arrangement at one point that had two different reproducers to be swapped out for playing either type of record as desired—perhaps being attached where the thumb screw is on my tone arm.

So,

1. Does anybody have one of these and can shed light on what I should be looking for?
2. Does anybody have an original tone arm and reproducer, or reproducers, that they are parting out?

Clay

[gramophoneshane]

Nice machine. A friend of mine has one too, & I was quite impressed with the sound quality, although IMO they lack a little in volume.
The double reproducer & tonearm on the machine in the first picture is actually an Ultona, which would have originally come from a Brunswick phonograph.
The second picture shows the correct tonearm with the "lateral" reproducer in place. The small screw half way up the tonearm was loosened off, and the front half of the tonearm, along with the reproducer slides out of the rear section of the arm.
Another reproducer and a straight section of tonearm was then slid into the arm to play verical cut discs. This reproducer carried the sapphire ball stylus & was rested on the red felt disc when not in use to prevent damage to the sapphire.
The vertical Pathé reproducer & section of tonearm you need turn up on ebay with some frequency, so it shouldn't be too hard to locate one & set the machine up to play Pathé's vertical recordings.
The sapphire stli aren't exactly cheap, but with careful handling & good records, you should get many years of service from the investment.

[FloridaClay]

Thanks so much. A great help!

Clay

[MemoryJack]

More info and user manual for the Dual Ultona.
http://home.comcast.net/~phonofilia/pho ... nswick.htm

[syncopeter]

Those Pathé machines are quite nice. They don't produce a lot of volume indeed, and may look quite primitive, however the ones I've heard easily surpassed Victor and HMV machines of the time sound wise. And they are much, much rarer, being built in 10s rather than 10,000s. I've heard late lateral cut Pathés on Pathéphones (with correct factory supplied adaptors) that really sounded amazing from such seemingly primitive machines. I know that someone tried to record a seried of early Dutch cabaret artists, using modern technology for professional archive purposes. Using a Pathé horn gramophone and a good microphone resulted in far better sound.

[alang]

I have an original vertical style Pathé tone arm and reproducer that might fit your machine. Please send me a PM if you're interested, then I'll get you measurements and pictures.
Andreas

[FloridaClay]

Jack, the Dual Ultona is fascinating. Maybe I will add a Brunswick to my long term wish list. Although if I buy many more phonographs I will have to start putting them out on my balcony.

Clay

[FloridaClay]

George Vollema of Great Lakes Antique Phonograph was able to come up with the correct vertical cut Pathé reproducer to replace the one missing from my Model 75 and rebuilt it for me. That, with a new sapphire stylus, arrived today. This is the first time I've heard a Pathé vertical cut disk and the sound is very good for the era. As some others have commented, there is not a great deal of volume, but more than adequate for the space where I have it and the sound is rich and clean.

Clay

[JohnM]

The embossed-label European center-start Pathé discs seem to be a full degree of magnitude louder than the edge-start paper-label variety,

[estott]

Because of the shallow grooves the sapphire ball rides rather lightly- it's very helpful to have the machine as level as possible. A warp can make the stylus skid or throw it off the disc. I've found that warped american Pathé discs will often go limp in hot water and flatten out but any hairline cracks will open up.