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I recently found a NOS sapphire shank stylus in a little envelope at the bottom of a box of dusty lateral-cut 78s I pulled out of someone's basement. If the envelope hadn't been stamped, I certainly would have just thrown it away without looking inside. (As it happened, I almost did, anyway.) The stylus is good, and I've been using it to play the few dozen vertical-cut 78s I knowingly own. (It's entirely possible I own more, but the only ones I know of are Pathé; if there are other vertical-cut labels, I'd be grateful to learn what they are.) I'm interested in picking up more vertical-cut discs, if anyone has some they'd like to sell. I don't care what the content is (except, please, no classical music) or the label (though I have a strong preference for American records). If you have some you'd like to part with, please let me know. Thanks!

Zenger wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 1:24 pm I recently found a NOS sapphire shank stylus in a little envelope at the bottom of a box of dusty lateral-cut 78s I pulled out of someone's basement. If the envelope hadn't been stamped, I certainly would have just thrown it away without looking inside. (As it happened, I almost did, anyway.) The stylus is good, and I've been using it to play the few dozen vertical-cut 78s I knowingly own. (It's entirely possible I own more, but the only ones I know of are Pathé; if there are other vertical-cut labels, I'd be grateful to learn what they are.) I'm interested in picking up more vertical-cut discs, if anyone has some they'd like to sell. I don't care what the content is (except, please, no classical music) or the label (though I have a strong preference for American records). If you have some you'd like to part with, please let me know. Thanks!

Some other brands that issued vertical cut records with the Pathé cut are (US, not English) Rex, Rishell, and various French labels such as Opera, Disque Ideal, Disque Diamond (not to be confused with Edison Diamond Discs!), Disque Aspir, and (some) Disque Aerophone. Note that some US labels that issued vertical cut records were to be played with steel needles, not the Pathé sapphire ball; examples are Lyric, OKeh, and Par-o-ket. Edison's Diamond Discs, of course, are also vertical cut but play with the company's own proprietary diamond stylus, not a sapphire ball.

There is also the "Starr" record manufactured by the Starr Piano Co. The one below is not mine, but it is the same type of label I own.


I also have a Grey Gull test recording that is recorded like that. It plays abnormally long and is the song "Dardanella" on both sides.

As mentioned, early OkeH records are vertical cut, steel needle discs. These are the bluish label with the Indian Head that do not say "LATERAL" on them in large letters.

The US label "Opera Disc" also started with verticals and then changed to laterals. The verticals are also steel needle records. They are difficult to find.

Weren't also early Brunswick records vertical? And Vocalion?

Thanks, everyone! Very helpful. Of course, now I have more questions:

1. How can I tell which vertical-cut discs can be played with steel needles, and which ones need a ball/sapphire stylus?

2. Are Pathé Actuelle "Needle Cut" discs lateral or vertical? Should I assume these can be played with a steel needle?

3. Is there an accessible central list somewhere of vertical labels? It would be helpful to refer to when combing through my unsorted boxes of 78s. I assume most, like Pathé, do not say "vertical" on the label.

And again, if anyone has some (of any label) to sell, please let me know.

Thanks again!

Zenger wrote: Sat Nov 29, 2025 5:01 pm Thanks, everyone! Very helpful. Of course, now I have more questions:

1. How can I tell which vertical-cut discs can be played with steel needles, and which ones need a ball/sapphire stylus?

2. Are Pathé Actuelle "Needle Cut" discs lateral or vertical? Should I assume these can be played with a steel needle?

3. Is there an accessible central list somewhere of vertical labels? It would be helpful to refer to when combing through my unsorted boxes of 78s. I assume most, like Pathé, do not say "vertical" on the label.

And again, if anyone has some (of any label) to sell, please let me know.

Thanks again!

Going by the numbers

1) Usually, paper label discs for playback with the sapphire ball bear a notation on the label, something like "play with sapphire stylus" or "sapphire record." The record companies seem to have been pretty good about that, probably because playing a sapphire ball cut record with a steel needle will promptly destroy it. The ones for steel needles were less reliable, with the info, if provided, often seeming to be on the paper covers, not the record labels. Etched label records, like the Pathé center-starts, if vertical cut can safely be assumed to be sapphire ball cut, regardless of the presence or absence of label info.
2) Pathé Actuelle records were lateral cut. All Pathé records of the acoustic era, cylinder and disc alike, were dubbed from master cylinders, which is why the same recording can show up in a wide array of formats and sizes. For the Actuelles, Pathé just turned the cutters 90 degrees.
3) If there is one, I don't know of it--but that doesn't necessarily mean anything, and if there is one I'd love to know about it!

I sent you a PM some time ago about Pathé discs that I could part with. Drop me a line!

drh wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2025 1:07 am
I sent you a PM some time ago about Pathé discs that I could part with. Drop me a line!

Thanks for the information! I never got your PM, but I just sent you one, as well as an email.

Zenger wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2025 4:08 pm

drh wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2025 1:07 am
I sent you a PM some time ago about Pathé discs that I could part with. Drop me a line!

Thanks for the information! I never got your PM, but I just sent you one, as well as an email.

And I just sent a responsive e-mail. Looking forward to further exchange!