American Berliner “Trade Mark” phonograph

[PhonoJack]

Someone asked if any American Berliner “Trade Mark” phonographs were available.
Here's one on eBay item: 170305061082 BIN $4200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Berliner-T ... m153.l1262

eBay commentary: "OK Here is an American Berliner phonograph ready for your collection. This was known as the famous “Trade Mark” phonograph as it was the model used to launch the Victor Phonograph Company. Nipper and the Berliner phonograph became the major advertising symbol for this giant industry which dominated the phonograph and record market. The Berliner machine was introduced in 1897 and this one was probably made 1899-1900. This is the early sidebrake model, so maybe earlier. Machine is in very nice condition. It runs although it is fairly noisy as these early ones are. The horn cradle looks reproduction to me and possibly the speed control knob, but everything else appears to be straight. Reproducer serial number J 6853 with patent on the back 1895. It has some brass showing on the front but overall nice and clean. Amazingly, the elbow definitely looks original. The horn is original, although showing its age, with paint loss and some stress cracks in the zinc bell, but overall presentable with two nice gold stripes. The wood is really nice with really good original finish and the decal is bright(see pics), with just slight wear, the pic makes it look duller than it is(didn’t have much light on it). The turntable is original- the felt looks good but probably replaced".

Hope this helps, Good Luck

PhonoJack

[gramophoneshane]

It's a bit pricey for a machine with repro parts and a damaged horn isn't it?

[Valecnik]

I paid more for mine which was same model in slightly better condition, better horn, original but ratty felt and repro brake but it would not be the first time I overdid it a bit for something I "had to have".

In any case this one is cleaner than 90+ percent of them and the repro parts are not significant and I know the seller. He's honest and properly represents his stuff. Note the original leather elbow, reproducer, excellent case and decal. If I wanted another one right now I would seriously consider paying his "buy it now" price but that's just me.

[Starkton]

He's honest and properly represents his stuff.

The seller should also try to represent his dwelling more advantageously.

By the way, I don't like the phrasing: "The horn is original, although showing its age". It doesn't show its age but its mistreatment sometime in the past.
However, I appreciate that the seller did not attempt to treat the horn unsuitably for cosmetic reasons, such as by overpainting it.

[Steve]

I'm with Bruce on this one. I think the B.I.N. price is actually quite reasonable.

I'm not sure about the record clamp - the seller doesn't mention it but it looks too good a condition compared to the rest of the plated parts. Anyone else have a view on this?

If it's okay, the only repro parts appear to be the turntable felt, the speed adjuster and the wire cradle. Not bad for a machine of that age!

I wonder why it hasn't sold though? There are clearly US collectors who have the money to spend thousands on cabinet machines with a rare pedigree, so why not a much earlier and (IMHO) far more interesting machine like this one?

[Valecnik]

Steve,

I think the record holddown could be original but there are some good reproductions that after having aged a few years are really hard to tell even when comparing them side by side with originals.

I can't explain the pricing. Two or three years ago I think this machine with a $4200 buy it now price would have lasted about a minute on eBAY. The prices started to soften well before the economic downturn in the US. I've seen other pretty desireable machines in very good condition sell for a substantial discount over prices three years ago.

There are still clearly deviations from that norm. I've seen some premium machines ins excellent original condition still go for surprisingly high prices, premiums over what they would have sold at three years ago but these cases are the minority.

I don't buy to speculate, I'm a collector so I don't buy just becuase prices are low, (lack of space and lack of money). I do think though that for anyone who is interested in some of the premium American machines, now is a good time to buy. Five years from now you will not regret it in my opinion.

[AZ*]

The seller should also try to represent his dwelling more advantageously.

I've been there on a couple of occasions, and the photos are an accurate reflection.

[Steve]

I don't buy to speculate, I'm a collector so I don't buy just becuase prices are low

Yes, my philosophy exactly. I've never been half-hearted about anything. As a dedicated enthusiast, if I REALLY want something, I'll get it within reason but if I don't particularly want a machine, I won't simply buy it because it's dirt cheap wth a view to making money on it later (not that I'd succeed in making money anyway in all probability).

A good friend of mine used to say, in discussing my antiques and collectibles: "Only ever buy something because you like it and not because you think it's cheap". I've always stuck to this.

[MordEth]

Out of curiosity—what differences are there between this machine and Steve’s featured New Style № 3? Based on the seller’s description, this is obviously an earlier model, and has the sidebrake, a different soundbox and a painted horn, but I was wondering if there were any other changes between those machines that I am missing.

— MordEth

[hr][/hr]

eBay Item #170305061082

American Berliner Trademark Phonograph #J4166

OK. Here is an American Berliner phonograph ready for your collection. This was known as the famous “Trade Mark” phonograph as it was the model used to launch the Victor Phonograph Company. Nipper and the Berliner phonograph became the major advertising symbol for this giant industry which dominated the phonograph and record market. The Berliner machine was introduced in 1897 and this one was probably made 1899-1900. This is the early sidebrake model, so maybe earlier. Machine is in very nice condition. It runs although it is fairly noisy as these early ones are. The horn cradle looks reproduction to me and possibly the speed control knob, but everything else appears to be straight. Reproducer serial number J 6853 with patent on the back 1895. It has some brass showing on the front but overall nice and clean. Amazingly, the elbow definitely looks original. The horn is original, although showing its age, with paint loss and some stress cracks in the zinc bell, but overall presentable with two nice gold stripes. The wood is really nice with really good original finish and the decal is bright(see pics), with just slight wear, the pic makes it look duller than it is(didn’t have much light on it). The turntable is original- the felt looks good but probably replaced.

[Steve]

Out of curiosity—what differences are there between this machine and Steve’s featured New Style № 3? Based on the seller’s description, this is obviously an earlier model, and has the sidebrake, a different soundbox and a painted horn, but I was wondering if there were any other changes between those machines that I am missing

The motor and turntables are also different (and my background is also free of clutter )