RCA Radiola 47 & Phono - worth acquiring ?

[De Soto Frank]

I know this is a little outside the scope of this Forum, but I know there are folks here who are knowledgable about early electric phonos...

I stumbled across an early '30's RCA Radio-Phono today.

The paper label on the chassis-board identifies it as a "Radiola 47".

If you lift the top lid, it has an "orthophonic" style turntable, tab-brake, and auto-brake, and an RCA "horseshoe" pick-up, plus a rectangular, velvet-lined box-pocket for records, to the left of the turn-table.

The turntable motor is the induction type.

The power-supply / amplifier has just two tubes: #80 and #45, and the receiver only seems to have one tube - a five-pin with a cap ( can't read the number ).

There is a cabinet label on the inside that reads:
"Cabinet by Irving" with a wreath-like scroll around the edge bearing the words "Federal Quality" and the number E-3 at the bottom.

It's "all there", and un-molested... finish is average; grille-cloths are there, but a bit tatty.

It's priced attractively ( $100 ), but working condition is unknown, and I'm reluctant to haul it home if it does not have the potential to be made a working machine... ( without running into massive amounts of $$$ ).

It interests me primarily because it's an early all-electric, with many parts reminiscent of late Victor Talking Machine...

Sorry I don't have pics, the antique shop forbids photos...

What say ye ?

[Phototone]

Oh I think its worth $100 for sure, but that Radio for sure is supposed to have more tubes in it. 5 to 7 tubes. Look around, could they be under metal covers (shields)?

[barnettrp21122]

If you can do the electronic repairs yourself, or know an enthusiast who can advise you of potential repair costs, then this might be a good project for you. I regret buying my partially-restored Radiola, even at a low price, simply because anything not acoustic is out of my realm, and a complete rebuild by an experienced dealer will put you out many $$$'s. To me they're a whole different animal with specific needs in order to function satisfactorily.
Just my opinion!
Bob

[De Soto Frank]

If you can do the electronic repairs yourself, or know an enthusiast who can advise you of potential repair costs, then this might be a good project for you. I regret buying my partially-restored Radiola, even at a low price, simply because anything not acoustic is out of my realm, and a complete rebuild by an experienced dealer will put you out many $$$'s. To me they're a whole different animal with specific needs in order to function satisfactorily.
Just my opinion!
Bob

That's sort of where I'm coming from, Bob...

I'm sort of fishing to see if these early electric machines were any good when they were new... if they weren't, not much sense in spending big $$$ to restore one.

A very good friend is an electrical engineer by trade, and restored old radios in his youth ( now in his upper 50's...), so I do have a local resource.

( And I'm kind of kicking myself that I did not grab an Electrola/Radiola/Recorder in a cabinet very similar to my 8-12 Ortho that I ran across a few years back... again, all there and un-molested ( down to the recording mic and other sundry bits )... what put me off it was all the black transformer potting that had leaked over the radio chassis and insides... was still probably worth it for $250... ( sigh ) )

[Uncle Vanya (offline)]

The Radiola 47 is an excellent phonograph. the chassis contains five tubes, two of which are concealed within the shield cans.
The circuit of this set is pretty straightforward, and it should be relatively easy to restore. the audio amplifier section of this set has ample gain, and consists of a type 24A high gain tetrode tube and the type 45 power triode ( single-ended, a popular configuration among modern Hi-Fi enthusiasts). The speaker in the Radiola 47 was excellent for it's day, and the set can provide room-filling volume with fine quality of properly restored. I owned and restored one of these sets, which I sold some years ago, and would gladly purchase another example if given the opportunity.

I would suggest that you by all means purchase this set, if it appears to be in reasonably good condition. Are the pressed wood speaker grilles present and unbroken?

The set which you mentioned passing up, one configured in a manner similar to that of your 8-12, was probably a RE-57, a 1931 Combination, which for some reason never sounds as good as the best of the 1929 machines.

[gramophoneshane]

I'm sort of fishing to see if these early electric machines were any good when they were new...

The reason Radiola was used by some of the leading phono manufacturers (RCA, Brunswick etc) was because they performed extremely well & were reliable.
The biggest problem with any of this early tube equiptment is that if you cant work on them yourself, they can be very expensive to restore electrically. Generally speaking, parts are really cheap, but it can take MANY hours to rebuild these things properly, so labour costs are often through the roof, & in many cases you will probably spend more restoring the chassis than you'll get for a fully restored machine if you sold it.
If however, you have a friend who can do the work for you, or can help teach you to read the schematics & guide you trough the restoration process, labour cost can be cut down dramatically (or even be non-existant).
The second problem is that radio-phono combinations aren't very popular with collectors- both radio and phono collectors. Just like acoustic console machines, collectors seem to avoid them due to floor space. Personally, I dont see the point in worrying about an extra 12"-18" than a table model sitting on a table takes up unless you live in a matchbox, but I'm not the one dictating the market
Interest in these does seem to be slowly increasing, but I still hear stories of radio guys destroying early radiograms to harvest the parts for smaller more popular radios.
You'll also hear stories of how horseshoe magnetic pick-ups are harsh on records, and although I've never owned or used any RCA models, I've found them no worse than an orthophonic type soundbox once rebuilt. Just like acoustic reproducers, the rubber components go hard with age, which effects sound quality & increases record wear.

If I could get an early RCA model that was complete & in good cosmetic condition for $100, I'd jump at the chance. RCA was up there with the best of them, so I'm sure you'll be more than happy with it's sound quaily & performance once restored, but if you're thinking about buying this to make money on in the near future, then you'd be best to avoid it.
Perhaps in another 10-20 years, these might reach their full partential as a collectible & for resale, but it's not the way it stands now.
I've got 6 big radiograms that range from 1931 to 1956, but I couldn't care less about resale value. I just enjoy them for what they are, & as pieces of phonograph history.

[De Soto Frank]

Thanks Shane,

Definitely not looking looking at it for "return on investment"...

I understand the stigma of the "unwanted child" factor, although I would think the earlier radio-phono combos would be more desireable than the dearth of console units from the '40s & '50s...

I am dis-inclined to acquire any more AM ( 500-1700 mHz )radios, as there's nothing but talk-radio on that band here in my neck of the woods these days...

Since my initial post, have found a couple of videos here and on You-tube of Radiola 47's in action ( playing records, that is ), so apparently some are still working.


I was trying to get a feel for how well that induction-type turntable motor worked ( constant speed? Any inducement of hum either mechanically through the pick-up or electrically through the radio amplifier ), and how-well the early horse-shoe pick-up might have worked... this machine has the simple "straight-arm".

I think I shall have a go at it... who knows but the darned thing might work as-is...

[beaumonde]

The example that "Uncle Vanya" mentioned restoring and selling was to me (5 years ago). It has an upgraded inertia RCA tonearm from the early '30s and sounds great. I never try to listen to AM (would be pointless in my high-rise building with all the RF interference), but listening to electric (and acoustic) 78s is fun; this is probably my best sounding phonograph for '20s-30s electrics.

See:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=3&t=6514

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=3&t=4206

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=3&t=4146

[De Soto Frank]

Adam,

Thanks for your reply.... I listened to the recording from "Acis & Galatea", by Peter Dawson and am quite jealous !

After years of shuffling through so many (too many?) examples of "whistling solos" or "Hawiian Guitars" in 2nd-hand shops, flea markets, and antique shops, it is sometimes almost shocking to be reminded that "real music" was also recorded ( let alone Handel or Purcell!), although mostly by our friends in Europe...

I will look forward to hearing more of your "dubs"...

Regards,

Frank

[Brad]

.......

I am dis-inclined to acquire any more AM ( 500-1700 mHz )radios, as there's nothing but talk-radio on that band here in my neck of the woods these days...

......
I think I shall have a go at it... who knows but the darned thing might work as-is...

Frank,

An idea I had in mind should I ever get around to resurrecting an Atwater Kent AM radio I have stashed in the "project" room is to buy a cheap AM transmitter and connect it to my Wifi radio. The old radio would be able to receive Old Time Radio shows and period music which would lend some authenticity to the content.

Just an idea.