real old or fake?

[alang]

Just saw this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-UNUSUAL-AN ... 256705aeb6
Legit old or fake? In some parts it looks to well made for a fake, but then the crank hole etc...?
Andreas

[estott]

I think the case is old but it's been refitted- possibly it was something else, maybe a music box.

[USlakeside]

Looks skillfully cobbled. When I was in Paris I learned about a series of elaborate wooden Pathé cases for disc machines that were 1950's reproductions. You cannot tell when you look at them because they are old, but not period old.

[Sidewinder]

Am I mistaken or was this at the Jeffcoat sale in NC? At which time it sported a decent Victor Speartip horn - which was the only interesting thing about it. (as in last picture)

Looks like it is made up of pieces from various sources, and Bradleys special gold paint on the support? Reproducer is more 1930's than 1904.

[estott]

The more I look at it, it's a fantasy piece using some genuine parts. The joinery on the case looks rather strange and the horn elbow is ridiculous.

[brianu]

Am I mistaken or was this at the Jeffcoat sale in NC? At which time it sported a decent Victor Speartip horn - which was the only interesting thing about it. (as in last picture)

Looks like it is made up of pieces from various sources, and Bradleys special gold paint on the support? Reproducer is more 1930's than 1904.

yes, I thought this came from that north carolina auction. then when I clicked on the ebay link and saw the seller - musical treasures of miami - I knew for sure that it did... that guy bought a bunch of stuff from that sale, and he even shows in the auction listing a photo of the machine with the speartip horn (which isn't included). it's somewhat disconcerting, though, that this seller, who should really know better, is listing this as a "rare and unusual antique" machine. I agree, that it's most likely pieced together from random sources... and the whole back bracket assembly looks like a modern reproduction (of the sort found on all that crap that comes out of india and china).

[alang]

Thanks everyone. I was just confused by some of the more elaborate woodwork, which seemed different from the typical India or China crapophones. But a combination Franken-Crapophone makes sense I guess
On the other hand, some real old european machines didn't look real to me either.
Andreas

[Starkton]

Case and motor are authentic, manufactured about 1905 by the Berlin company Sandahl & Lehmann. From March 1904, S & L goods were distributed by Lyrophon G.m.b.H., hence the lyre-shaped inlays in the case.

As was already noted, back bracket, tone arm, sound box and elbow don't suit the case. These parts are almost non existent, not to mention the matching horn, and it is therefore near impossible to complete an otherwise nice machine. Difficult to estimate what such an "eternal fragment" is worth.

[kropton]

In my opinion is original gramophone manufactured in a small factories [european]

Such factories produced also bicycles, musical instruments etc.
This isn't a china / india fake - it looks good.

Here is similar type of european Grammophone [its my friend]
http://myvimu.com/exhibit/3395-grammophon

[Sidewinder]

In my opinion is original gramophone manufactured in a small factories [european]

Such factories produced also bicycles, musical instruments etc.
This isn't a china / india fake - it looks good.

Here is similar type of european Grammophone [its my friend]
http://myvimu.com/exhibit/3395-grammophon

The machine you link to is the luxury version of the Pygmy Grand from the Gramophone company (His Masters Voice), the Victor equivalent in Europe. The Pygmy Grand was manufactured starting around 1909 and I believe was the 1st internal horn table top model manufactured .


Starkton is correct, the base and motor are OK, but the horn support / arm / soundbox are from 3 different manufacturers, none of these being Lyrophone.

So you are correct as you indicate it is not a crapophone (india/asia). However it is a frankenphone (many different pieces joined together like Frankenstein)