Survival Rate of the Machines?

[New Owner]

So, out of curiosity, what is the average survival rate for antique phonographs? I'd imagine that many were often junked in the '50s when 33's and 45's came about if they weren't moved into the cellar. I'd also guess that the larger machines (like the "Credenza") were often kept and repurposed as tables or bookcases after the 78 era ended, as they were so very large and not too easy to get in or out of the house (I had a TV like that once, one of those giant-ass tube TV's that were popular 10 years ago. After it broke, it had to be sawed in half to move it up the stairs ). I could be way out of wack with my assumptions here.

[Henry]

The survival rate of my particular VV-XI is 100% So far, that is. If it keeps raining here, I might convert it into a rowboat! Or fasten a prop to the spindle and make a trolling motor out of it.

All seriousness aside, I don't know how one could determine the survival rate of "our" phonographs, although I'll bet you that a statistician could come up with an extrapolation based on scanty evidence, of a sort so familiar nowadays among certain elements in our public dialogue. But I digress. Rant nipped in the bud.

[1923VictorFan]

Hi New Owner.
About a week ago I posted a quote from "The Victrola Page" that caused a bit of a stir. I have no clue as to how the figures were calculated and of course there's no way to verify any of it but He says that only 6% to 8% of all Victrolas built have survived. Included in those survivors are all of the junks and parts machines.
I'd love to know some true, verifiable stats, especially on the pricey external horn machines, but I fear we will never really know. I think it's clear, at least when it comes to the table top Victrolas, that there are far more of them around than there are people to collect them. I agree whole heartedly with your comments regarding the sad fate of probably millions of them after accoustical recording died and 78's fell from grace. They made nice boxes and were of course excellent as firewood.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

I'd think that was a "off the wall" figure, but we could be wrong.

Think about it, however. Victor made around 8 MILLION machines. So, (let's say) 10% of that, is 800,000. That is still a LOT of machines. I'd personally think 15-22% (sounds like a nice number) would have survived. 800,000 survivors are a LOT, but when you factor in all the common models, I'd think 1.5 million or so would be a good number. It's respectable number, but still not a lot, compared to the total production. Also, remember, new Victrola's are being discovered somewhere nearly every day. The reason that very fact doesn't hurt the values of current machines, is the fact that if Victor made 2,000 of one particular model, they still made 2,000 examples of one model 100 years ago. Say 350 exist, somewhere in the world, and 280 are in collections/museums. If 10 more are discovered, people will snatch them up the keep for themselves. By most of the rarer models remaining in collections/museums, people will pay a high price to obtain one, and most collectors don't go after a VV-80 or a VV-VI, so those are more frequently bought/sold, as they command cheaper prices. That will never change, even as more are found.

[Jerry B.]

I've always thought that a nicer machine like a Victrola XVI or XVII had a better survival rate than a X or XI. I bought an oak XVI last winter from a middle age fellow. He said it came from his grandmother's estate. All the grandkids had one rule in the house. Do not touch the Victrola! He then said his father had the same instructions.

Any Victrola, even an inexpensive Victrola IV or VI, was a major investment of disposable income. I'm sure it was a purchase celebrated in the most modest home. Jerry Blais

[gramophoneshane]

Anyone remember a photo that was posted on OTV years ago, showing a back alley during the depression and what must have been hundreds of phonographs pilled high & being chopped up for firewood?
I used to have a copy on my old computer but it's long gone.
It does make you wonder how many similar piles in alleys there were at the time, and how many tens of thousands of machines around the world met a similar fate.

[briankeith]

I think a lot of people really took good care of these machines as they cost quite a bit of money in "those days". Just look at the floor model Victrolas. The VV series, etc. Some are so darn common people can't give them away at shows or on EBay. Yet back in their time they were an important part of ones home, sometimes even a center piece for a family living room. Things were better made back then too, and people took much better care of their investments back then. (I ask my 95 year old mother about this kind of stuff all the time) So it makes sense to me that the higher production model Victor Victrolas and Columbia Grafanolas have survived intact more that we all think. Maybe even millions of them world-wide, who knows......

[larryh]

I don' t know how common it was, but in the very early 60's I purchased my first machine, a mint condition Victor 400 that the department store I worked at in high school took it in on a trade for a new stereo phonograph. So not only were people disposing of them but dealers were taking them in as a way to get new sales as well. In my case they sold the trade in for 25.00 which was rather high compared to machines selling for a matter of a few dollars or less in those days.

Out here in the boonies most furniture seems to have lived a hard life and I think less machines survived in good condition. I see a lot of "barn" finds that are very sad indeed or came out of very damp basements after spending 60 years there. Not like in town where those prized machines sat in perfect surroundings till now.

Larry

[1923VictorFan]

"Anyone remember a photo that was posted on OTV years ago, showing a back alley during the depression and what must have been hundreds of phonographs pilled high & being chopped up for firewood?"

GramophoneShane, I remember that photo and have tried to find it again recently. I thought it might have been in the book "The Fabulous Phonograph" but after tracking down and buying a copy...it's not there!
If any of you guys have a copy of that photo I bet there are many of us who would love to see it.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

Luckily, it would appear most of those are off-brands. I can't specifically make out a Victrola in all that.