Replica Machines

[New Owner]

Since there are so many rare and desirable machines (Class M's, Type K's, Maestrophones, etc.) that all collectors want but only a few can have, why hasn't somebody made replicas of them before? I know there are many replica tinfoil phonographs out there, and there are crapophones, and Jean-Paul Agnard sells the Lys-O-Phone cylinder player, but why hasn't anyone made a replica of a spring-motor powered machine? I know the amount of time and money would be very high, but as these machines typically sell for $20000-$40000 at auction in good condition, I'm sure that the $5K+ would be worth it to collectors. To keep them from being confused with authentic machines, the maker can put his/her name on there somewhere plus big bold print that it is a replica, and change the size of a random detail, such as the length of the crank or width of the box. The only obstacle that could keep this from getting anywhere would be getting one's hands on an original machine to take measurements, as most are in museums and/or private collections. Smaller, more common machines like Columbia Q's and Edison Gems would be good for starting collectors who live in a very dry area for phonographs.

Just a thought

[estott]

I think that a replica of a fairly common machine like a Columbia Q or an Edison Standard would cost more than an original- the genuine machines are really rather plentiful. As to replicas of high end machines a good replica would be very costly and you probably wouldn't be able to get anyone to pay for it- a serious collector with money will want the real thing. The replica tinfoil machines sell because even advanced collectors have a slim to nothing chance of getting an original.

[Starkton]

A modern replica is nice to look at and convenient to study its functions or demonstrate it in public, but has no emotional value. It is basically not a proper collector's item as the manufacturer can launch a new series anytime, should the demand exceed the supply.

[epigramophone]

A fellow enthusiast here in the UK makes replica EMG horns in fibreglass which, unlike the originals, will never droop or absorb moisture.

He has also constructed a small number of complete machines, based on HMV510/511 cabinets fitted with EMG components and the fibreglass horns. These are not so much replicas as collector's items in their own right, each individually numbered and with detail differences.

I have been fortunate enough to see them under construction and to hear them playing some of my own records. I have no hesitation in describing these machines as the ultimate 78rpm listening experience.

[brianu]

in most cases, reproducing entirely new machines would probably cost a good deal more than you think, and likely close to if not more than what it would cost to buy an original. consider, for example, just the cost of basic, common reproduction parts. although "many" collectors may be interested, in the general sense, there likely just wouldn't be enough to justify the time and cost of design and production of the reproduced components - and in the case of the rarest machines, the designer would probably also have to find a decent and complete original version of the machine he's redoing, which could be quite difficult in itself depending on the particular machine.

and again, most collectors really want original, or as close to it, as they can get. and people who just want any random wind-up record player will probably be just as happy with a common $200 victor machine as they would with a $5000 reproduction tinfoil machine.

paul baker (I think that was his name) was building reproduction auxetophones not too long ago. I think he was making 25 or 30 of them, but mostly based on how many could be pre-sold. I met him at a show 7 or 8 years ago where he had one and the thing was beautiful and sounded extraordinary... the project as he described it also sounded, for each machine, incredibly long and involved. and in the end, you wouldn't be getting a $25 or $30k machine for $5000, you'd be getting that $25k or $30k machine for just that, $25k or $30k.

[OrthoSean]

A fellow enthusiast here in the UK makes replica EMG horns in fibreglass which, unlike the originals, will never droop or absorb moisture.

I have been fortunate enough to see them under construction and to hear them playing some of my own records. I have no hesitation in describing these machines as the ultimate 78rpm listening experience.

True that Does this person make ones that would fit a Mark IX? Any idea how much they cost?

Sean

[TinfoilPhono]

As Brianu says, in the rare instance where a complex machine like the Auxetophone is reproduced, the cost comes very close to the price of an original. Tinfoils have the advantage of being relatively simple -- a base, a couple of supports, a speaker, shaft, and mandrel. I'm over-simplifying since to do a really good replica requires a great deal of precision, an enormous investment in time, and not insignificant costs of raw materials. So even at $2K or so, a replica 'Krueusi' tinfoil is not making a big profit for anyone. And a serious machine like the cast-iron Bergmann tinfoil replicas made by Bill Ptacek about 10 years ago, which cost over $6,500 even then, yielded him very little for his trouble.

Now consider a Class M. By the time you cast and machine all the myriad parts for the top works, make a complete motor, build a cabinet, even make a reproducer, you're looking at an extremely sizable investment. How many people would pay $12K-$15K (which I would wager it would cost to build) versus an original at probably $20K today?

I can see people making replicas of extremely rare, virtually unobtainable machines like the Kruesi or the Brady model tinfoils, or a simple machine like the hand-wind Berliner (several people have reproduced that), but for most highly coveted phonographs the cost would be prohibitive.

And, as others have said, ultimately a replica just doesn't have the appeal of an original. They are great for display and demonstrations, but only if they can be made at a cost which is considered affordable.

Partial replicas are a different story. Paul Baker has made many replica Polyphone attachments that fit to original Edison Standards, Homes, and Concerts. Neil Maken made a replica Columbia Polyphone attachment many years ago. A couple of people have made replica Bettini attachments (but of shockingly poor quality, unlike the Polyphone copies). I would put the EMGs into that category since a lot of original parts are being used.

[New Owner]

I kinda see where you all are coming from on this, and I probably didn't think it through already An Auxetophone replica must have been one Hell of a thing to build. I've seen only one replica tinfoil available in my short time for collecting, which is reasonable I assume. I'm sure that replicas of rare machines will be common one day...when atomic cloning technologies come into existence

O/T: Rene, you wrote one fine book on Tinfoil phonographs. I love it!

[Jerry B.]

I think we'd be happy with some really accurate reproduction parts such as accurate slotted Victor cranks or a really good 14" Edison horn. Jerry Blais

[penman]

I think we'd be happy with some really accurate reproduction parts such as accurate slotted Victor cranks or a really good 14" Edison horn. Jerry Blais

I agree with Jerry, as well as the comments above. The cost of doing a good complete reproduction of a complicated phonograph are really prohibitive, considering the market. On the other hand it baffles me I have yet to find a really good copy of a Victor slotted crank. No one seems able to get the subtle taper from the shaft to the knob right. Ours is obviously a niche market but I think there's plenty of demand (such as it is) for those easily lost or broken original pieces. Just my 0.02.