The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Yesterday I wanted to open an HMV No 4 soundbox with the intention of replacing the gaskets. Unfortunately I haven't been able to separate the front from the back. Since I believe it's a brass soundbox (there are no potmetal cracks present) I don't know why I can't do it. I put it in the freezer overnight to see if that would loosen things up, but when I tried to pry it open with a small screwdriver only pieces of the back snapped of. So I'm afraid I ruined it. I have another back laying round that belonged to a potmetal nr 4, so if I manage to get the back of this one without causing further damage I hope I will be able to get the other back on and save this soundbox.

Any ideas on how to proceed? The back is still stuck!

Bart, save yourself a lot of time and wasted energy and simply buy a brass No.4. That is an all pot-metal soundbox you have there and you'll never separate them successfully. The 'other' back will also be distorted and will never sit right into the 'first soundbox' front bezzel. I say go brass all the way. They're cheap enough to buy on Ebay and very common too, which is a good thing.

The only snag is that the pot-metal ones are chrome plated whilst the brass ones are nickel. Presuming the machine has chrome fittings, will mean that you will have to get the nickeled brass bezzel chrome-plated somewhere?

I suspect the rubber gaskets have stuck to the metal and glued the pieces together. Since this reproducer is now largely ruined it won't hurt to experiment. Soak the whole thing in a solvent like lacquer thinner and see if it loosens up. It will probably strip what is left of the paint.

Steve wrote:Bart, save yourself a lot of time and wasted energy and simply buy a brass No.4. That is an all pot-metal soundbox you have there and you'll never separate them successfully. The 'other' back will also be distorted and will never sit right into the 'first soundbox' front bezzel. I say go brass all the way. They're cheap enough to buy on Ebay and very common too, which is a good thing.

The only snag is that the pot-metal ones are chrome plated whilst the brass ones are nickel. Presuming the machine has chrome fittings, will mean that you will have to get the nickeled brass bezzel chrome-plated somewhere?

The soundbox that's now broken came with this HMV 101, judging from the style of the decal and the use of the earlier motor (410) it should be an earlier one, with brass soundbox, and no pot-metal.


Since the soundbox doesn't have the small cracks usually associated with pot-metal, I was sure this one was brass and therefore nickel plated. It therefore surprised me that I was unable to get it open!

kick

bart1927 wrote:kick

?

it was potmetal (there may not even be any cracks on the outside while it's nevertheless degenerating on the inside, and the freezing may have even contributed... this has happened to me with a couple of Pathé reproducers that I could have sworn were brass until they broke... brass typically doesn't break, nor does it noticeably swell). so you should just get another one, preferably the brass.

brianu wrote:

bart1927 wrote:kick

?

it was potmetal (there may not even be any cracks on the outside while it's nevertheless degenerating on the inside, and the freezing may have even contributed... this has happened to me with a couple of Pathé reproducers that I could have sworn were brass until they broke... brass typically doesn't break, nor does it noticeably swell). so you should just get another one, preferably the brass.

(Kicking means replying to your own posts in order to move them up in the list, so the topic gets renewed attention)

If this reproducer is indeed made of pot metal, does this mean that that fake crocodile leather HMV 101 came with the wrong reproducer? Because it is a rather early HMV with the old style logo in the lid, and the 410 motor. It should have come with a brass reproducer, right?

right, I know what kicking, bumping, etc., is. I just didn't understand why you did it because the questions seemed to have been answered.

sure, maybe it came with the wrong reproducer, or more likely someone could have just swapped it out for any number of reasons along the way - perhaps they wanted the original brass one for another machine, so they kept it and substituted a pot metal one for what came to be your machine. unless you can trace the provenance of the phonograph through every owner back to the original one, you'll probably never know for sure, but what difference does it make? it's a nice machine with what I think is a less common covering to the case. just get a decent brass reproducer for it, as others indicated already would typically have come with it when purchased new, and that's that. no?

brianu wrote:right, I know what kicking, bumping, etc., is. I just didn't understand why you did it because the questions seemed to have been answered.

sure, maybe it came with the wrong reproducer, or more likely someone could have just swapped it out for any number of reasons along the way - perhaps they wanted the original brass one for another machine, so they kept it and substituted a pot metal one for what came to be your machine. unless you can trace the provenance of the phonograph through every owner back to the original one, you'll probably never know for sure, but what difference does it make? it's a nice machine with what I think is a less common covering to the case. just get a decent brass reproducer for it, as others indicated already would typically have come with it when purchased new, and that's that. no?

Hmm, that's slightly disappointing. Especially since I bought this gramophone from someone who is also a member on this board. I won't reveal his name, but he posts frequently about rings and red faced leading dealers

Which brings me to my next point. How to tell the difference between a brass and a potmetal reproducer? I always thought potmetal reproducers looked like this:


But what about this reproducer I bought on Ebay last year. It came with it's original box!



Is looks to be in pristine condition, and it sounds pretty decent too. But is it potmetal or brass?

The one in your last post is pot metal.
The easiest way to tell is by looking at the rubber flange gasket at the back. On the one above, the rubber extends "past" the metal tube that the rubber grommet is mounted in, but all brass No.4's will have that rubber grommet flush with the metal casing, as pictured below on the left.
To be really sure, you can always get the earliest version where the soundbox information is visible through the mica diaphragm, as pictured below on the right. The ones with writing behind the mica were never made in pot metal, so you'll know it's definately brass if that is the case.