Best/Worst Type of Horn for Cylinder Phonographs?

[New Owner]

So, in terms of sound quality, what's the best type of horn for a cylinder phonograph? The standard witch's hat horn, the cone horn (used on Gems, Columbia Q's, etc.), the trumpet horn (used on earlier models), the popular Morning Glory, or the cygnet?


Personally, I like the looks of the witch's hat horns the best, but the best horn sound-wise has to be the wooden cygnet used on the Opera/Idelia phonographs.

[barnettrp21122]

How will you differenciate which is best or worst the way this question and poll is set up?
Bob

[gregbogantz]

The question of which horn is "best" is vague. Are we talking about style or sound? But based on sound quality, there is no commercially made original product that surpasses the internal horns of the Edison Amberola 1A and 1B. The Amberola III is a close second as it is very similar in shape, but it is made of metal rather than the molded jute horns of the earlier Amberolas. The Music Master wooden cygnet horns such as on the Opera are much prettier to look at, but they are not as good sounding.

Actually, the reason that I qualified my statement above is that the best sounding horn that I ever heard on a cylinder player is the "Ediphonic" horn that was designed and built by a mechanical engineer and phono collector friend of mine. It is designed as an exponential horn and built into a cygnet shape. It is perched on top of an Edison Amberola 50 motor mounted in a custom tabletop cabinet and fed by an Edison Diamond B reproducer with a custom-made diaphragm. The horn is suspended by a unique pantographed pair of cranes. All very tidy and professional looking. If you weren't knowledgeable about Edison machines, you'd believe that it was an original Edison product. Oh yeah, and it sounds great!

[gramophoneshane]

Worst- 14" witches hat (or 10" cone)
Best- Music Master wood cygnet.

A lot of people also say the 11 panel cygnet is the best external metal horn, but personally I think the 12 panel straight horn sounds better.
Some people claim the big internal horn in the A1 etc is the very best, but to me a music master sounds just as good but different. As with most things, we all have personal preferences I guess.

[saxymojo]

Hi,

I like the sound from a wooden cygnet, actually it is probably the look that is what I like and that makes it sound good Disc machines I like the EMG and the HMV re-entrant.

Hey Shane I have a 12 panel gygnet, that sounds pretty good.

Regards Marcel

[Covah]

The bigger the horn the better and that's about it, for a straight horn. Big horns need floor cranes. Good horns were also wrapped in silk to dampen the metallic ringing.

[WDC]

Tom was so kind and had sent me some photos of his Ediphonic machine few months ago, which I am posting with his given permission. It is quite an invention of a modern acoustic cylinder machine. The double crane design is truly ingenious.

He is planning to put some YouTube videos online in the future. I am really anxious to here this machine.

[gregbogantz]

There is now a video of the Ediphonic Edison player mentioned above with exponential horn available on YouTube. Tom Kimble, who designed the exponential horn and fitted it to his customized Amberola 50 motor just uploaded this video via the account of JoeBusam. This is how Edison players COULD have sounded had Edison adopted the exponential horn design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhLjcfswHb0

Note the much smoother midrange response and extended bass which is characteristic of a large exponential horn.

Tom has also developed an improved lateral disc reproducer that he demonstrates in the video below of his Victor 10-35. I have built several versions of Tom's design and modified it myself in several details. It is a completely new design which is made from all new parts - no part of the original Victor orthophonic reproducer is used in this design. This video demonstrates the new reproducer playing a modern vinyl 78 at reduced tracking force. Note the counterweight hanging off the back of the tonearm crook which reduces tracking force to around 80 grams. Tom is using a Pfanstiehl osmium 78rpm stylus in this demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MOLfhk5 ... gnC-ezJ2G7

This 10-35, by the way, is one of the few existing early versions with the original solenoid controls, all of which works correctly. Few of these remain today after the Victor factory recall which removed the solenoids and converted the early models to the later design. Enjoy!

[Lenoirstreetguy]

That does in fact sound pretty good. One would think that the Music Master Cygnet would be almost exponential but apparently not. The Paulo Gruppe cylinder made me take another look at him as an artist! It's very fine indeed. I've always ignored Gruppe after hearing him do Traumerei..now I'm sorry!
Jim

[wjw]

Greg, thank you for sharing the youtubes. My Edison Triumph sounds pretty thin compared to that set-up, even with a cygnet horn. The lateral reproducer is likewise amazing especially if you consider that I have that recording and it sounds like it does on my giant Magnavox console! I would love to see how the action of the reproducer was lightened to achieve the clean treble. Was there much loss of volume in doing so?