do 4 minute recorders exist

[kirtley2012]

in the near future i am hopeing to buy a 2 minute recorder however i have heard that 4 minute recorders exist, is this true? what do they cost when they come up for sale?

[Phototone]

I would think the primary difference between a 4 min. and a 2 min. recorder would be the size of the cutting stylus. In this case, one could just change out the stylus?

[Jerry B.]

I have a recorder with a green tinted body that I believe to be a four minute recorder. It's the only one I've seen but I have not actively searched for others. The best advice I can give you on recorders is to buy a good complete 2-minute recorder and enjoy it. You'll find many incomplete recorders that are missing the cutting stylus. I don't believe anyone makes a replacement cutting stylus. I know you enjoy projects but it's best not spend your efforts on an incomplete or damaged recorder. Jerry

[gramophone78]

Ebay is really the best place to find and to get a idea of value on any item.

[kirtley2012]

I have a recorder with a green tinted body that I believe to be a four minute recorder. It's the only one I've seen but I have not actively searched for others. The best advice I can give you on recorders is to buy a good complete 2-minute recorder and enjoy it. You'll find many incomplete recorders that are missing the cutting stylus. I don't believe anyone makes a replacement cutting stylus. I know you enjoy projects but it's best not spend your efforts on an incomplete or damaged recorder. Jerry

acctually it is! i know someone who is making his own recorders from modified originals and he is having some repro styli made from ruby rods, i am going to buy a one of those 2 minute recorders from him when they are ready because they are going to be THE BEST recorders on the market! they make very good, clear recordings (much better than with a original) however i would still like a 4 minute one someday

[Phototone]

I have a recorder with a green tinted body that I believe to be a four minute recorder. It's the only one I've seen but I have not actively searched for others. The best advice I can give you on recorders is to buy a good complete 2-minute recorder and enjoy it. You'll find many incomplete recorders that are missing the cutting stylus. I don't believe anyone makes a replacement cutting stylus. I know you enjoy projects but it's best not spend your efforts on an incomplete or damaged recorder. Jerry

acctually it is! i know someone who is making his own recorders from modified originals and he is having some repro styli made from ruby rods, i am going to buy a one of those 2 minute recorders from him when they are ready because they are going to be THE BEST recorders on the market! they make very good, clear recordings (much better than with a original) however i would still like a 4 minute one someday

It would seem to me that the "main" difference in a 2 or 4 minute recorder would be the size of the stylus. If you have a nice 2 minute recorder, if you could source one, you could just replace the cutter stylus with a smaller one for 4 minute, assuming you have an Edison player with the 4 minute gearing. You should bear in mind that you won't get many play-backs from a soft wax recording with a tiny "groove" as made by a 4 minute recorder. I think most of the 4 minute reproducers would have much too heavy a weight.

[edisonphonoworks]

Yes four minute recorders have a green tint, and the cutter is half the size of a four minute so 20/1000 inch in diameter. Unless you are playing around with four minute records, they have there short comings, that is why you do not see many of them or very many four minute home recordings, In fact the largest collection of the black 4min recording blanks, that I know of is at the Library of Congress, the cylinder recorder was used until the 1930s for ethnomusicology, an Edison school model. The wax has to be very hard, and four minute blanks are made from recycled Gold Molded wax, that has been slightly modified by additives. Because of the relative hardness of the blanks, they have a propensity to wear out the cutters after about 20 recordings. Four minute blanks also are not able to be shaved on a phonograph, and if you use a dictation shaver, the speed must be made really slow, and the cuts very very thin, or it tears small holes in the wax, a special long blade shaver was made for these, with a metal blade. The blanks themselves wear out soon, as the wax even though harder than brown wax, is softer than the Amberol wax, which at least to my knowledge is not able to be shaved. The best use for a four minute recorder is to record on a brown master wax, for good fidelity, for making master for hard expoxy records. I am no longer going to share any more technical information in regards to recordings and making blanks anymore. I tried publishing my research in MAPS to establish myself as a technical researcher in hopes of protecting myself, and getting credit for research, only for it to be stolen by other and used against me. I am no longer going to write any more articles on wax composition, or molding records, it has never been appreciated. I have worked hard burned myself to make it and I will post pictures of scars from making wax. It makes me upset that someone can talk to me on the phone, take the thousands of hours of research away by the little nuggets I have told them, send the information to China and have it made cheaply. That is why I pulled all my more recent record making videos down. Most of you researches seek and gather paper facts, and compile and put it in books and paper together, this is hard work and important. while I take what is on the paper, do the experiments, and make tangible things, at the expense of injury, and detriment to health, only to be called a liar and ridiculed!!!!!

[kirtley2012]

i am now interested in getting one!, would shaved dictaphone cylinders work for a 4 minute recorder or even melting a black and brown wax cylinder together into a mold
what would a 4 minute recorder cost? i really want to now experiment with one

[Phototone]

i am now interested in getting one!, would shaved dictaphone cylinders work for a 4 minute recorder or even melting a black and brown wax cylinder together into a mold
what would a 4 minute recorder cost? i really want to now experiment with one

You know, while it's not quite the same as a 4 minute recorder, just using a Ediphone "as-is" or a Dictaphone as a method of doing longer-form recordings would give you a feel for the smaller groove size. You don't have to use the speaking tube for recording, you can substitute a horn of your choice. The groove pitch of a dictaphone or Ediphone is about ½ way between 2 min. and 4 min. cylinder, but due to the longer length of the cylinder, and generally slower recording speed, you can get more time. You can always speed up a dictating machine to equal the 160rpm of a commercial cylinder.

[kirtley2012]

thanks for the tip but a dictaphone could never go into my bedroom (too big and ugly) and i want to do 4 minute and 2 minute recordings so i can play them on any normal phonograph and if i want to, experiment with making molds to produce recorded and blank cylinders in quantity for myself and just for fun!
thanks anyways!
Alex