Fiber needles vs worn record

[amrcg]

Dear all,

I bought a record yesterday and tried to play it with fiber needles. It was the first time I was unable to do it. It does not go beyond 25% of the tracks. I've read somewhere that worn records present this symptom. However, the record plays nicely with a steel "soft-tone" needle. In your opinion is the record already too worn, or could there be another reason, something I'm doing wrong, for example?

Kind regards,
António

[CarlosV]

Fiber needles are fickle: they are very susceptible to break when running through worn parts of the disc. They will play records pressed up to the 30s, but rarely play more recent pressings. Even older pressings are not a given: some cheaper labels from the 20s, like the Grey Gull, will not play with fiber needles, which will actually damage the record.

[amrcg]

Fiber needles are fickle: they are very susceptible to break when running through worn parts of the disc. They will play records pressed up to the 30s, but rarely play more recent pressings. Even older pressings are not a given: some cheaper labels from the 20s, like the Grey Gull, will not play with fiber needles, which will actually damage the record.

The record in question is 1932 at most.

Now I'm starting to fear fiber needles. Is there any way to know in advance if a given record will be damaged by fiber needles? I thought they were too soft to damage the records.

Regards,
Antonio

[kirtley2012]

fiber needles are a bit strange, they should just be used on near perfect records because worn records wear down the wooden point too fast, flatten the point and it isnt good! also be sure the needles are completely dry, moisture within the needles will also flatten the point too fast

[amrcg]

fiber needles are a bit strange, they should just be used on near perfect records because worn records wear down the wooden point too fast, flatten the point and it isnt good! also be sure the needles are completely dry, moisture within the needles will also flatten the point too fast

In your opinion, which needles are less dangerous in terms of record wear: fiber needles or soft tone steel needles?

[kirtley2012]

in my opinion, fiber, or atleast with good records, if the point is considerably worn/flattened it will not be very good for the record, the best thing is thorn needles but they are not as common as fiber needles

[CarlosV]

Steel needles will always impart wear to the records. Having said that, if you replace needles after a single play, you will need to play the same record for dozens of times before the wear becomes audible.

Fiber needles, in particular thorns, do not cause wear to most discs pressed up to the 40s, except for the cheap pressings. You can play confidently all major labels (Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, Decca etc) with fiber needles and there will be no wear. For the smaller labels you will have to experiment.

Fiber/thorn needles will not damage even discs printed in the 50s, however the high modulation of the grooves will likely cause the needle to wear before the end of the record.

I have to make a distinction: I practically only use thorn needles, and very rarely bamboo ones. The thorn needles produce the best sound and are robust enough to play visibly-but-not-too-worn discs, while I never had good experience with bamboo needles. After trying with several machines and discs, my success rate in playing a whole side was less than 50%, so I gave up and now only use thorns, and steel in the case of discs in less-than-average condition.

[FloridaClay]

Recommendations for sources for thorn needles?



Clay

[Valecnik]

Recommendations for sources for thorn needles?



Clay

Ditto on that!

[barnettrp21122]

Ebay seems to be the most consistent source for commercially-made new old-stock thorn needles, although many collectors are on the watch for these, and the prices sometimes are high. I've gotten lucky a couple times with listings that were apparently overlooked. Some commercial thorn needles seem to be too thin for my needs, rendering too soft a sound. I suppose these work best with pristeen classical recordings.
I've been making my own needles for the past few years with thorns from an Arizona barrel cactus. If you have friends out West, maybe they could help you with these.
There's an extensive thread covering thorn needles on the Antique Talking Machine Forum. Here it is:

http://victrolagramophones.proboards.co ... 968&page=1

Hope this helps.
Bob