Edison Square Top Horn.

[whitedogfive]

I have a 1899 standard square top with an automatic reproducer. I currently use a 14 inch original steel witch hat horn as the speaker. I would like to get an original brass 14 inch horn, but I am not familiar with recognizing one. I almost bought a brass horn for it, but withdrew on the purchase as the horn did not have the patent applied for stamp in the cone, nor did the seam extend to the nipple of the horn as the black steel horns do. Can any one upload a picture or two so I and I am sure many others can see what one looks like?
I also have on another Edison machine, with a large all brass horn (30 inch), probably a period after market horn, no makers name or patent applied for stamp, and the seam does not go into the nipple at the end of the horn. It is an old horn, not made by Edison, but since it does not have the seam running to the nipple, makes me wonder if I passed up an opportunity to buy what I wanted.
Any info would be appreciated as usual. Thanks.

[martinola]

I've got an original brass Witches Hat horn and its construction is different than the Black & Brass horn. The brass one is 15" long with a soldered-on nipple. There is no rolled edge between the bell and the cone and no "Pat Appl. For" stamp. (For that matter I think some of the early B&B horns didn't have the stamp either.) Anyway, here are a couple of photos of mine. Good luck on the hunt!

- Martin

[phonogfp]

Most original cylinder horns manufactured before 1905 will have the smaller end constructed much like the one shown by Martin. I believe the Tea Tray Company was the first to patent a stamped & joined small end for a horn (that's the April 22, 1905 patent we often see on horns). Others soon developed similar designs. Edison never manufactured cylinder horns (except for the Amberolas). Edison-supplied external horns were made by outside manufacturers such as Tea Tray and Standard Metal Manufacturing Company.

The fact is that not all original horns have any markings, patent or otherwise (in fact most don't). Not all original cylinder horns will have the seam running the length of the smaller end (in fact, very few will before 1905, with exceptions such as the small aluminum horns supplied for the Graphophones).

So how do you tell?

1) On the earlier designs where the small end consists of a tube soldered to the tapering section, check for the tube to be brass. Reproductions will often use copper.

2) Check the imaginary line from the tapered section to the bell. They should line up. Reproductions will often have a bell section that's a bit larger then the tapered section or vice versa. Look for that continuity.

3) Look down the throat of the horn from the wide end. Sometimes (but not always) reproductions will have subtle concentric lines in the bell from the spinning process. I've never seen these on originals (but good reproductions won't have them either).

4) If the horn is a larger one (more than 15" long), chances are it's an original. Some larger reproductions have been made, but I've seen comparatively few of them. If there's a question, check the hanger. If you've examined hundreds of antique phonograph horns, you'll be able to spot a reproduction hanger. Also, check #1 above. Check the construction of joints, soldering, etc. There's no substitute for experience.

George P.

[whitedogfive]

Thanks for the info, this really helps!!!