Canadian VV 4-3

[gramophone78]

There is at least one past thread that discusses in detail the differences in Canadian & American made/sold model's.
There are significant differences both is construction & details. This includes both the 1 thru 6 series and Victrola's.

Berliner (Montreal) was in control of his own company up here.

As an example.... A Canadian manufactured "Victor" style elbow used on (1-6) models will "not" fit a US made machine. Even though they look basically the same. The bracket opening (US) is too small. A Canadian made elbow is also made in two parts.....cast and rolled brass.

Too many examples of "differences" to list off again.

If a member really wants to know more, I would recommend looking for these past threads. I know I participated in them and provided many details.

[JerryVan]

Nathan,

Much has been said about the value of this machine and its being worth the effort and cost to restore. While I was still in high school, I bought a trashed Kimball upright phonograph for $5. It was in terrible shape. My dad and I totally replaced the side panels, took every piece of the cabinet apart, re-glued all the joints, refinished it, searched for correct parts, made a new grill, etc. When we were done, the machine looked nice, and was worth about $50. Our effort was huge and very much outweighed the final value of the machine. We couldn't have cared less. We were happy and proud of the end result and had fun working together.

I now have way too many machines, some of them fairly expensive, (at least I paid a lot for them. What they're actually worth?... Let's not go there.), but, that original fun and thrill of resurrecting something that no one else would have cared about, no longer seems to be there. Buying valuable machines has not increased the thrill. It may have even reduced it.

My point is this, when it becomes about dollars & value, it ceases to be fun. Don't measure the value of an item, (or a person), in dollars. Yes, it's handy when conducting business, but useless when measuring the worthiness of an item and the satisfaction gained from improving it, just for the shear experience.

By the way, your machine looks very nice! You can be proud of saving a piece of history that others might have torn apart. You saw a value not measured in dollars.

[Victrolacollector]

Nathan,

Much has been said about the value of this machine and its being worth the effort and cost to restore. While I was still in high school, I bought a trashed Kimball upright phonograph for $5. It was in terrible shape. My dad and I totally replaced the side panels, took every piece of the cabinet apart, re-glued all the joints, refinished it, searched for correct parts, made a new grill, etc. When we were done, the machine looked nice, and was worth about $50. Our effort was huge and very much outweighed the final value of the machine. We couldn't have cared less. We were happy and proud of the end result and had fun working together.

I now have way too many machines, some of them fairly expensive, (at least I paid a lot for them. What they're actually worth?... Let's not go there.), but, that original fun and thrill of resurrecting something that no one else would have cared about, no longer seems to be there. Buying valuable machines has not increased the thrill. It may have even reduced it.

My point is this, when it becomes about dollars & value, it ceases to be fun. Don't measure the value of an item, (or a person), in dollars. Yes, it's handy when conducting business, but useless when measuring the worthiness of an item and the satisfaction gained from improving it, just for the shear experience.

By the way, your machine looks very nice! You can be proud of saving a piece of history that others might have torn apart. You saw a value not measured in dollars.

Very good point. My dad always said enjoy the machines for now, maybe they will be worth something in the future, if anything, I think that the value of most machines has leveled off, as have the interest. We see this even with the small train sets, antique radios etc., the younger generation has moved out from antiques, all about new plastic etc. I don't worry about value, if it looks nice and plays good at the right price I will consider it.

[FloridaClay]

Nathan,

Much has been said about the value of this machine and its being worth the effort and cost to restore. While I was still in high school, I bought a trashed Kimball upright phonograph for $5. It was in terrible shape. My dad and I totally replaced the side panels, took every piece of the cabinet apart, re-glued all the joints, refinished it, searched for correct parts, made a new grill, etc. When we were done, the machine looked nice, and was worth about $50. Our effort was huge and very much outweighed the final value of the machine. We couldn't have cared less. We were happy and proud of the end result and had fun working together.

I now have way too many machines, some of them fairly expensive, (at least I paid a lot for them. What they're actually worth?... Let's not go there.), but, that original fun and thrill of resurrecting something that no one else would have cared about, no longer seems to be there. Buying valuable machines has not increased the thrill. It may have even reduced it.

My point is this, when it becomes about dollars & value, it ceases to be fun. Don't measure the value of an item, (or a person), in dollars. Yes, it's handy when conducting business, but useless when measuring the worthiness of an item and the satisfaction gained from improving it, just for the shear experience.

By the way, your machine looks very nice! You can be proud of saving a piece of history that others might have torn apart. You saw a value not measured in dollars.

Very good point. My dad always said enjoy the machines for now, maybe they will be worth something in the future, if anything, I think that the value of most machines has leveled off, as have the interest. We see this even with the small train sets, antique radios etc., the younger generation has moved out from antiques, all about new plastic etc. I don't worry about value, if it looks nice and plays good at the right price I will consider it.

Indeed! I expect that I have more time and money in most of my machines than I could recover in a sale. Do I care? Not in the slightest. What I love is the craftsmanship and ingenuity of those who originally made them and thinking about the pleasure they have brought to past owners over the years and the idea of preserving them for the enjoyment of those who will own them long after I am gone. And learning all I can about each of them in turn has been a very pleasant adventure.

Clay

[NateO]

As a general matter, are there usually a lot of differences in the Canadian Victors, or do they mostly tend to be renamed U.S. models. I just don't know much about Canadian versions.

I know nothing about Canadian models, but so far one difference in the cabinet of Nathan's 4-3 and my own American 4-3 is the Canadian cabinet has a nice bullseye moulding above the horn grille which the American does not have. Otherwise, the doors and legs are the same.

Mike

I think the only other difference is the finish. As far as I can tell, the U.S. version was only offered in mahogany.

Nathan,

Much has been said about the value of this machine and its being worth the effort and cost to restore. While I was still in high school, I bought a trashed Kimball upright phonograph for $5. It was in terrible shape. My dad and I totally replaced the side panels, took every piece of the cabinet apart, re-glued all the joints, refinished it, searched for correct parts, made a new grill, etc. When we were done, the machine looked nice, and was worth about $50. Our effort was huge and very much outweighed the final value of the machine. We couldn't have cared less. We were happy and proud of the end result and had fun working together.

I now have way too many machines, some of them fairly expensive, (at least I paid a lot for them. What they're actually worth?... Let's not go there.), but, that original fun and thrill of resurrecting something that no one else would have cared about, no longer seems to be there. Buying valuable machines has not increased the thrill. It may have even reduced it.

My point is this, when it becomes about dollars & value, it ceases to be fun. Don't measure the value of an item, (or a person), in dollars. Yes, it's handy when conducting business, but useless when measuring the worthiness of an item and the satisfaction gained from improving it, just for the shear experience.

By the way, your machine looks very nice! You can be proud of saving a piece of history that others might have torn apart. You saw a value not measured in dollars.

Thank you! I'm grateful for the compliments I have had, considering it didn't take too much effort.
Part of my thinking was that so many of these machines did not survive to the present, and I didn't want to destroy one that had made it, even with the issues it has. A large part of that probably comes from being a new collector. I have seen very few Victrolas in person, so they are "precious" in a way, even a common machine like the 4-3. I'm sure that will wear off as I get more experience, but for now I enjoy it. I am proud that it looks decent enough to be displayed now, and am not too worried about the value. I enjoy owning it, which is what counts.

I agree completely with you victrolacollector. Part of what I love about my phonographs is that they still function after 90+ years of service. I highly doubt my smartphone will still work a century from now. The craftsmanship on the cases has also always impressed me, having grown up in a world of cheap plastic and particle board.

I have been trying to contact Peter Wall through ebay for the past 2 weeks. Does anyone know how long it usually takes him to respond?

[FloridaClay]

I have been trying to contact Peter Wall through ebay for the past 2 weeks. Does anyone know how long it usually takes him to respond?

I am guessing he is out of town. He usually responds fairly promptly.

Clay

[Curt A]

Torjazzer,

When I made the following remark, I was not expressing my own feelings toward Canada (or any other country) and it was not meant as an arrogant "we are better than you" statement": "Canada has always been considered to be a "lesser" sister country and for whatever reason phonographs from there are less desirable to most collectors, whether it be a Canadian Berliner or other make..."

What I was trying to convey is an attitude that I have heard expressed by more than one collector regarding "foreign" machines and why they don't collect them... That being said, I understand why you considered it to be offensive toward your country - which I consider to be mine as well, since my ancestors were UE Loyalists. My reaction was over the top, since I thought you would understand the meaning of my comment, since it was not meant to be derogatory. I apologize for making my reaction personal to you - please forgive my compulsive and unnecessary response.