When Is A Victor 1 Not A Victor 1?

[Jerry B.]

Maybe I should have titled this thread "What Is The Most Unusual Victor Rigid Arm Model? I've enjoyed the thread regarding the early Victor 3. It illustrates the difficulties when trying to date early Victor rear mount horn machines. I've always wanted a rigid arm Victor R. Is that the most unusual rigid arm model?

Jerry Blais

[Jerry B.]

Didn't the advertising description "Victor The Third" come about when advertising came out promoting the Victor M with the, then new, rigid tone arm? Jerry B.

[Phono-Phan]

Jerry,
In all my years of collecting the Rigid Arm Victor R has been the most difficult to find among the four Rigid Arm models. I have seen early R machines with the "Remove This Plate To Attach Tapered Arm" But, I have never seen a tapered arm R. I would rank the rarity of the Rigid Arm machines as R being the hardest to find then the MS, M, and E.
Is it too early to start your Union Wish List?
Ken

[phonohound]

The Rigid-arm R is the most difficult of the rigid arm series to find. There is evidence in a 1903 Victor Catalog that actually shows the Rigid-arm Royal titled as the Victor 1. You can find a photo of this ad on page 62 of the Frabrizio Paul book titled Phonographica. Pictured is my all-original Victor R, including the horn paint, which to me is my favorite of the Rigid-arm series. You will see the serial number is 9684 and is labeled R.

Scott

[alang]

That is a beautiful machine. I did not know that they also did the oxidized copper finish on the back bracket and the tonearm. Interesting that they did not use a plaque to cover the holes for the front mount arm.

Thanks for sharing pictures of this rare machine.
Andreas

[phonohound]

Thank you. It would have been nice if Victor made a small plaque or something to give it a more finished look. I like the R best because it is quite nice looking with a small footprint. You can pretty much display it anywhere

[phonogfp]

I've seen a couple early Royals/Victor Is with little decals on the front like this one:

George P.

From "Discovering Antique Phonographs" by Fabrizio & Paul. All Rights Reserved.

[Jerry B.]

There is evidence in a 1903 Victor Catalog that actually shows the Rigid-arm Royal titled as the Victor 1.

Thanks, I remember seeing that page copied and used in a reply to a thread on our Forum. I too have always thought the rigid Arm R was the most elusive of the four rigid arm models. So has anyone seen an actual rigid arm machine with a Victor 1 ID tag? Is it simply Victor advertising that tagged the rigid arm R as a "Victor the First" which was shortened to Victor 1? Was the same true for other machines with the rigid arm? Was a Victor M with rigid arm called a Victor the Third or Victor 3?

Jerry Blais

[Jerry B.]

George, do you think the Victor Rs with the decal were made for the US market? Weren't rigid arm machines sold for quite a bit longer in European markets? Was Victor just selling recently obsolete models anywhere but US markets?

Jerry B.

[phonogfp]

George, do you think the Victor Rs with the decal were made for the US market? Weren't rigid arm machines sold for quite a bit longer in European markets? Was Victor just selling recently obsolete models anywhere but US markets?

Jerry B.

I believe the decaled Victor Is were made for the US market. There were no HMV markings on them, and they were found here in the States.

George P.