Berliner Phonograph Analysis Please

[gramophone78]

Just to clarify "standard".I was using with the meaning of the "stock" reproducer NOT as the "C" or "Standard" reproducer.That is how I read it in "LFTD" (I could be wrong).Now you have me wondering (based on the pic you posted) what was the cost of the "New Century" to order or was it already on some models at no extra cost.That said,it is my understanding in "LFTD",the "Standard" was also offered on the "A" as a stock reproducer for a time.I would have to assume that the "NC" replaced it as a better "stock" reproducer.Based on what you show the "Standard" was 2.00 more and the "Concert" was 3.00 more for other models.George,can you show us a "NC" please???.With regards to Starkton's new "unmolested" Gibson coin-op,I too would love to see that.In fact,I would prefer to see it as it was found pre-restoration.After all that is part of the fun and excitment.Look how excited we all got at seeing the Berliner in the "raw".IMHO

[phonogfp]

Just to clarify "standard".I was using with the meaning of the "stock" reproducer NOT as the "C" or "Standard" reproducer.That is how I read it in "LFTD" (I could be wrong).Now you have me wondering (based on the pic you posted) what was the cost of the "New Century" to order or was it already on some models at no extra cost.That said,it is my understanding in "LFTD",the "Standard" was also offered on the "A" as a stock reproducer for a time.

That's the semantic point: a stock sound box, not the stock sound box. I believe the New Century and the Standard cost the same ($2.00) and either was supplied with the A-D series at no extra cost. I'd presume that since Gibson didn't file his sound box ("New Century") patent until December 7, 1900, most earlier Johnson "Consolidated" machines with celluloid plates would carry the "Standard" sound box. From January 1901 (and metal "Victor" plates), any of the three sound boxes could have been obtained (the "Concert" for an additional $3.00).

I would have to assume that the "NC" replaced it as a better "stock" reproducer.

I'll bet they were available side-by-side for a time until stocks of the old "Standard" were cleared.

Based on what you show the "Standard" was 2.00 more and the "Concert" was 3.00 more for other models.

No, the "Standard" cost $2.00 separately, and the "Concert" cost $5.00 separately. When buying a new Johnson/Victor, a customer would need to pay $3.00 extra if he wanted the "Concert" rather than the "Standard" or the "New Century."

George,can you show us a "NC" please???.

Nope - - I don't own one! Can someone else help?

George Nitpicker

[gramophone78]

Nitpicker!!!!!!.Are you kidding.We need to figure out way of keeping your head alive once the body gives out.... .All that information could be lost.Since you are still a young man,we have time to create the technology to do it.Just think you could be the next six million dollar man.Maybe your stashing all that $$$ from your book sales for just that purpose .You need to go back to the other thread and let us know when we start getting our checks.OK,enough O/T.For those who really wish to see what an "New Century" looks like......here is one.They are a real pain to photograph.So,the pics are bad.The paper is better seen with the mica out.Hope you all like them.

[catfishjohn]

So - Is it possible for a Johnson machine to have originally come with a Eldridge Johnson Exhibition reproducer? I have what I believe to be an E. R. Johnson celluloid tag Gram-O-Phone although it was missing the tag when I got it. It looks like the one pictured in "The Talking Machine Compendium" on page 95. It is serial number 33246, not too far off from the one pictured in the book (34983). I assumed the "J" mark confirmed it was a Johnson machine?? It came out of an old collection and I figured the reproducer was correct. I also have an early Victor Royal, SN 679 with an Eldridge Johnson Exhibition reproducer. I always thought it was interesting because the reproducer on the Johnson machine is SN: 2 and on the Royal it is #1465, I figured this roughly represented the beginning and the end of the Johnson marked Exhibitions. I'm wondering if my assumptions are correct. - John P.

[gramophone78]

I'm going to say that this Berliner you show would have had a "C" or "Standard" closed face reproducer (pictured by George).However,there would have been nothing stopping an owner (at the time) to up grade to a better sounding Sound box.One thing to remember;things were changing (for the better)very fast.I do say this regarding the "C" because I have seen them with a 30K+ serial number.

[Starkton]

Obviously you are running out of space. Nevertheless I wouldn't store my collectibles like that:

[antique1973]

Obviously you are running out of space. Nevertheless I wouldn't store my collectibles like that:

Yes, I think he should send that machine and stack of Berliners to me for
safe keeping. I have some room here in my house.

[gramophone78]

I think I need to give someone a finders fee to get that machine.However,I like Berliners because you can stack them like cord wood..... .I would still like to see some of these fantastic machines that "Starkton" has......Maybe it's time for him to do a "show & tell".The Gibson "as found" would be a great start!!!!.Since he has all this great Phono info at his disposal.The story of it and how he found it as me going.....anyone else on board with me on this here????.FYI,on a "C" or "Standard".the last nice one that I was offered on it's own was 1500.00 USD.I passed.However,it will give you an idea of what you may have to spend for one.It was also in excellent condition as you can see.Note the 39K serial number and it is still stamped as a "J"!!!????.George,what's up with that????.

200807 phono 003.jpg (43.03 KiB) Viewed 1714 times

[gramophone78]

It looks like Berliner had already thought of the machines as being "Stackable".This is the best way to keep them. .

[catfishjohn]

You are right - I am running out of room. It's not as bad as it looks though. I'm in the process of sorting through several thousand records on a ping pong table and just moved the phonographs for the pictures. I only wish they were Berliners. You should have seen the basement two years ago...you would have really been apalled.

FYI - I forgot to add that the phonograph has no evidence of a decal and had the four holes for the tag when I got it.