Berliner's trip to England where he saw Nipper

[AllenKoe]

On the archive of passenger arrivals, try E Berliner, arriving at liverpool?

Hi Sidewinder,

I am not sure to whom you are directing your suggestion - that's a great "handle."

If it's meant for me (among others), I have tried to think of "everything." Staying flexible on exact names, ages, dates, and locations, to allow for human or computer mis-transcriptions.

So far. there is no documentary evidence (or Ship's Manifest) that "our" Berliner entered or left England in 1900. Is Len Petts still around?

Let's see what develops...

Allen

[Starkton]

[quote=AllenKoe post_id=310083 time=1645560370 user_id=918]
He certainly went there in March of 1899 ...
[/quote]

Peter Martland, who had direct access to the EMI archive for his PhD thesis, wrote: "... and when in May 1899 Emile Berliner came to London ...". (He wrote nothing about a journey in 1900.)

The Washington Post reported in its 8 May issue that Emile was in London on 28 April 1899 "on electrical business" .

When and how long did Berliner actually stay in England in 1899? Did he also make a detour to his brothers in Hanover during his journey, which apparently lasted several weeks or even months?

[AllenKoe]

He certainly went there in March of 1899 ...

[Starkton]: "Peter Martland, who had direct access to the EMI archive for his PhD thesis, wrote: "... and when in May 1899 Emile Berliner came to London ...". (He wrote nothing about a journey in 1900.)

When and how long did Berliner actually stay in England in 1899?"

[Allen]: Emile Berliner obtained his US Passport that year on Mar 6, 1899. He said he would be returning to the US in "6 months." That date of return, or Ship (to the US) has not surfaced yet.

The Phonoscope claimed that Berliner went to England (from the US) on April 20th, 1899, iirc. This date would be more precise as April 19th (on the Teutonic).

Are you now backing away from your previous claim (uncited by Martland) of an 'April-May 1900' visit by Berliner to Owen's office? Len Petts, who had access to the EMI files too, cites a Cable (pp. 989-990) from EB to Owen in May of 1900 asking for permission to use the Dog/Gramo Trademark; EB received (in reply) Owen's 'ok.' So think about this: If Berliner were really in England looking at the painting (in May 1900), why would the requesting Cable be sent by EB from America?

A lot of traditional misinformation comes from an old Nipper article by Dick Holbrook in VJM, around 50 years ago.

Allen

[gramophone78]

Allen, here is an article written by Dan Reed in 1991. The HMV referred to can be seen in four places (12,3,6 and 9 o'clock) within the sound grooves of the record attached below.

[Starkton]

[quote=AllenKoe post_id=310144 time=1645640288 user_id=918]
Are you now backing away from your previous claim (uncited by Martland) of an 'April-May 1900' visit by Berliner to Owen's office?
[/quote]

Please read my answer more carefully. It is not my "claim", it is the chronology posted by @epigramophone "based upon documentation contained in the official EMI archives."

Either these sources exist, or they do not, or they have been misquoted. Unfortunately, the archive does not seem to digitise its documents and put them on the web, otherwise this could be clarified.

[AllenKoe]

According to the EMI archive, you must instead concentrate on Berliner's trip in April/May 1900.

Now Stephan, surely you are trying to confuse me. Are these not YOUR own recent words? Don't you believe that Berliner WAS in England in May of 1900? How can you say "According to the EMI Archive..." without even citing a document (seen or unseen)?

What is YOUR evidence either way (for 1900)? I am saying that "Berliner's trip in April/May 1900" (to England) never occurred, despite Holbrook's old article in VJM and Petts' apparent acceptance of that 'info' on his p. 989.

Wie es eigentlich gewesen ist, bitte...

Allen

[gramophone78]

Just to add with regards to the HMV in the sound waves. The earliest mention I could find was in a Canadian trade publication "Canadian Music And Trades Journal" Volume 1 No 6 - November 1900 (see attached). This ad ran until Volume 3 No 1 - June 1901.

Volume 1 No 1 of the Canadian Music And Trades Journal was released June 1900 with a Berliner ad that does not mention the HMV in the sound waves (see attached).

Unfortunately, Volume 1 No 2 - No 5 (July 1900 - October 1900) are missing.

So, we may never know if the HMV in the sound waves ad was out before November 1900.