Garrard 201 motors

[vichighmathguy]

Don, you may find this thread helpful when installing your new motor. In particular, use of the overlap tables is essential for optimised tracking :

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15253&hilit=Questi ... nior+Motor

Dear emgcr: I thought I had found all of the relevant posts, but clearly I had missed the motherload! Very very impressive, and thank you for sending this link. My Expert Junior is currently powered by the original Garrard 30 motor. My (pragmatic) plan has been to simply copy the existing spindle location and replicate it with the new motor board I shall fashion. This is easy to do compared to the considerable learning curve I would have to ascend to implement your formulae with the required tools (and I taught mathematics for a living!). Given that my existing setup sounds wonderful, I feel that a new setup with identical spindle placement should sound just as good. Today the yard is covered with a fresh cover of snow and there is no heat where my tools are, so this may wait until Spring (so to speak) to "power up" the project.
Thanks again for your valued input - very much appreciated.
Don

[Orchorsol]

If your Garrard 30 is attached to a metal deckplate Don (as the 201s are), I BELIEVE they are all interchangeable having the same centre spindle position, in which case you could simply replicate the drillings for the screws in your new motorboard. Clearance for the cutout holw could then be done very simply by making a cardboard template or similar.

Graham, please correct the above if I am mistaken, but it certainly worked when I swapped Garrard AC4 electric motors for 201s in two of my EMGs.

[emgcr]

I think you are absolutely correct Andy that all the Garrard steel plinths I have come across (although none with a Model 30) will produce an identical motor spindle position relative to the tonearm bearing---presumably a definite and sensible policy by the Company. Having said that, it would seem to be a little strange to find a small Model 30 motor in a Junior ? I am wondering if this is a replacement ? Is this motor already screwed onto a metal plinth ? Don, perhaps you would post photos to show the existing arrangement ?

You are, of course, quite right in saying that if you can reproduce the identical spindle location then all is likely to be well, assuming that the tracking was correct if/when the motor was replaced. The only slight rider is that if the existing motor is bolted under the wooden deckboard with just the tapered spindle showing above then the turntable height with the 201 is likely to be a little higher which will affect the tracking but probably well within the parameters of the adjustment possibilities of the soundbox twist/angle. It would be instructive to measure the existing distance between tonearm bearing centre and motor spindle centre to check the 11 ½" imperative.

If it were mine, I should also find it interesting to make a simple protractor to assess the existing tracking. As a mathematician you might find it fascinating to see the revelation of up to two perfect tangents as the error varies between positive and negative--or not ! Measure at half-inch intervals across a 12 inch record. The same protractor would then be very useful to enable fine-tuning of your desired optimal overlap with the new motor and elevated turntable height. A lifetime of happiness in relation to minimal record wear and best sound reproduction would thus be assured !

[vichighmathguy]

I think you are absolutely correct Andy that all the Garrard steel plinths I have come across (although none with a Model 30) will produce an identical motor spindle position relative to the tonearm bearing---presumably a definite and sensible policy by the Company. Having said that, it would seem to be a little strange to find a small Model 30 motor in a Junior ? I am wondering if this is a replacement ? Is this motor already screwed onto a metal plinth ? Don, perhaps you would post photos to show the existing arrangement ?

Thank you very much for your collective experiences and expertise regarding my Expert Junior. They are even less common on this continent than they likely are on yours

I am attaching some photos to show the existing Garrard 30 motor in situ. In my opinion (and I have collected many phonographs), the motor is lightweight for the task at hand, requiring many many cranks with relatively little resistance to get it fully wound. I had read of EMG/Expert's upgrade paths back in the day to a good electric motor such as my 201v, so I would like to perform that upgrade with a new motor board, thus preserving the existing board and motor without damage. The issue though is that the motor arrived non-functioning. I hope my electric-motor-repairing-cousin can deal with that although he would no doubt be most grateful if a service manual were to surface.

Here are the photos for your observations and comments. I have owned this machine for about 40 years at this point and it appears to be untouched, although the finish on the motor board does not quite match the finish of the board the tone arm is mounted to.

[emgcr]

Many thanks for the photos and I quite agree with your comments that the motor is rather lightweight for an Expert Junior. I think the Model 30 might well be a replacement. My own had a Collaro D30 originally but now has an electric substitute. As you say, the main deck-board seems to be a slightly different colour to the adjacent tonearm board but well-matched from the point of view of the veneer. I do not think Mr Ginn would have permitted use of a cheaper motor and I cannot imagine a customer specifying such ! The hole through which the motor spindle appears is a little poorly made, again indicating that Expert may not have been involved.

All of this means that your decision to upgrade to a 201 and a new deck-board would seem to be an excellent idea. It is an induction motor so, in theory, there is not a lot to go wrong. Sometimes the laminations get into trouble if the motor has been left in damp conditions but otherwise the mechanical side of things is pretty similar to any other motor---governor etc. I think it unlikely that a service manual exists but hopefully your cousin will be able to do the necessary.

Do please keep us informed of your progress and I wish you luck !

[vichighmathguy]

Further help needed:
I have a further question to ask regarding my inoperative Garrard 201 turntable. I have asked my electric-motor-repairing cousin to have a look at it and he has run into an initial problem with removing the turntable. Could someone please provide the steps necessary to do this? From a photo he has sent me that he took using an endoscope, it appears that there is a fillister head slot screw on or below the shaft of the turntable, but also what may be a threaded hole for what might have been a set screw. Could someone with experience with the 201s please describe the turntable removal process? Much appreciated!
Don Mayer
Canada

[emgcr]

Don, I only have limited experience with these motors but have seen perhaps ten examples. In every case the spindle/turntable joint has had a parallel shaft fixing with a small cylindrical post underneath to take the "peg" drive---sometimes two. Having said that, I have a photo on my computer files of another example in excellent condition which I have never seen "in the flesh" but which appears to have a taper---but I cannot be 100% certain. There were so many models and that particular one does not appear to have a peg (I have more photos of the same item showing other views around the spindle).

Based on the above, the probability is that you have a parallel joint and that studious use of a penetrating oil over an extended period might elicit releasing success. In order not to allow the penetating oil into the "works" you might need to invert the motor throughout this process and introduce the fluid with a long-nosed syringe. If that is not successful, gentle use of heat (hair-dryer ?) at the centre of the turntable might produce the desired result ? It would seem that your motor may have been stored in damp conditions and that there is some oxidization present.

The fillister head screws you refer to secure the "peg-drive" to the shaft but I think it unlikely that releasing these screws would assist in this instance---but you could try. The seizure is more likely to be between the turntable boss and the shaft. I have never seen the odd set-screw arrangement shown in your boss which appears to be an ill-thought-out and badly-made, non-factory, later addition ? There does not appear to be a screw present at all---just the mangled threaded hole ? If that is the case, the opening might just be helpful for introducing yet more penetrating oil ?!

Sorry not to be more definite but I hope this is helpful and good luck. Please let us know how you and your cousin get on.

[vichighmathguy]

Thank you so much, Graham. Your comments and photos clearly indicate a course of action which will minimize any misinformed efforts to remove the turntable. I shall forward all this to my electric-motor-repairing cousin. He is currently involved in an after-hours renovation with a friend, but I know that I am next in the queue. I shall let all know the outcome of this (ad)venture.

All the best,
Don in Victoria

[BassetHoundTrio]

Nice to see this machine! I am assuming Victoria, BC? My wife and I have a dear friend there and are due for another visit. Victoria is one of our favorite places on earth.

I stumbled on this image of an EMG export model, on Galiano Island near you - would like to know where it is now!

My Mark IX EMG has a 201/B motor in it, and it performs magnificently.

Thank you so much, Graham. Your comments and photos clearly indicate a course of action which will minimize any misinformed efforts to remove the turntable. I shall forward all this to my electric-motor-repairing cousin. He is currently involved in an after-hours renovation with a friend, but I know that I am next in the queue. I shall let all know the outcome of this (ad)venture.

All the best,
Don in Victoria

[vichighmathguy]

Nice to see this machine! I am assuming Victoria, BC? My wife and I have a dear friend there and are due for another visit. Victoria is one of our favorite places on earth.

I stumbled on this image of an EMG export model, on Galiano Island near you - would like to know where it is now!

My Mark IX EMG has a 201/B motor in it, and it performs magnificently.

Hi William - you and I have corresponded via Messenger - great to hear from you. I will put a fuller reply in Messenger to you.

Cheers,

Don