Late Edison Standard Cylinders

[recordmaker]

I discussed this topic with "kropton" directly some days ago. Actually I can't confirm that late Edison black wax are more susceptible to mold than earlier ones. Attached are photos of some examples of moldy very late American and German ones.

Both American and European molds were used in the Berlin and Brussels factory as far as I know but I doubt that the Amberol wax was in use other than at Orange and probably all 4 min production came from the USA.
If these example were moulded in Europe then the wax was always a bit different from the USA formula due to local materials being sourced.
The Willesden plant in the UK was very troublesome opened late and closed early due to quality control problems I am not sure when the other plants closed in Europe.
I am willing to speculate that the 4 minute Amberols were not moulded in Europe on a falling market for the cylinder product at the time and the retooling ( to the spinning process) in Orange made it unnecessary.

[kropton]

I analyzed the shape and weight of Amberol cylinder, Standard Record cylinder and Gold Molded cylinder.
Below are pictures of the main differences in construction.
The answer is that the Amberol and Standard cylinders have the same weight of 75 grams and the same shape of the bottom edge of the cylinder, while the Gold Molded cylinders weigh 57 grams and have a different shape of the bottom edge. The method of internal milling is also the same for Amberol cylinder as for Standard cylinder, while Gold molded is different.
Now refer to the max_phenol post which showed a late standard cylinder. You are correct that it is a wax cylinder, it looks similar but not identical to the standard cylinders, look at the next picture which shows the thickness of the letters on the edge and the shape of the bottom edge. They look just like regular gold molded cylinders.
Another similarity between the amberol cylinder and the standard is the hardness of the "wax", the standard record can be easily reproduced with a diamond stylus designed for Blue Amberol without any damage to the surface, while the gold molded is scratched by it.
All standard cylinders that bear similarities to Amberola cylinders have the inscription PAT-D on the edge, suggesting that they were made in the USA. I had a standard cylinder with an inscription on the edge DRP (Deutsche Reich Patent) and this cylinder was attacked by mold, which would confirm the theory that the Amberol cylinders production technology was only in the USA.

[recordmaker]

Thank you the detailed analysis it is interesting I did not know about the American and German patent lettering which is more than suggestive of the manufacturing plant.

The slight incompatibility of the beveled 2 min engraved ends made with new Amberol equipment is something I have seen but not noted before but makes sense, the flat end was certainly chosen to help differentiate the 2 and 4 min records when they were introduced and carries on to the earlier blue Amberols but that's a different story.
The trimming tooling for the flat end was not quite suitable for the beveled end moulds it seems.

[kropton]

in the pictures below you can see the German patent mark. in that case, Polish cylinders were also made in Germany because they have the German patent abbreviation DRP. so it turns out that the Germans also had and used the hard Amberol formula. the composition of the wax must have changed just a moment before the withdrawal of the 2-minute cylinders because I have a copy of the cylinder recorded in 1907 in Warsaw and it is made of ordinary wax, while my friend has the same cylinder made of a different hard wax. the difference is the box I have Goldguss Walze equivalent to Gold Molded and he has Standard Record.
ps. If you have any Polish cylinders, please contact me

[recordmaker]

I would think that all the molds were made in Orange by that time and the working molds sent to Europe while the factories were operating.
I don't know but I still don't think the Amberol wax was made or used outside the works at Orange.

The one thing that suggests this is that all the wax Amberols that are found in the UK in one type of American made box for either UK catalogue or American selections. During the earlier 2 min period there were distinct European Edison boxes made by other methods. Look for the Seely tube and box company Newark stamp on the base.

Sending empty boxes from the USA would not have been the most logical thing to do as shipping cost depends more on volume than weight at sea.

I have often wondered if the Polish, Norwegian, Swedish catalogues etc. were aimed at a USA customers from those countries as much as exports or possibly more. They turn up very rarely in the UK. but were available t all American dealers at the time as the lists in the Edison Phonograph Monthly suggest.
I wonder if the USA sold versions of the same title carry the USA PTD?

[kropton]

Polish cylinders that I bought in the USA have the inscription PATD, while those I bought in Germany, Poland have the inscription DRP, it turns out that the matrix was different depending on the region of sale? All cylinders from the second series in 1907 (earlier 1901 in Berlin) were recorded in Warsaw, but have different patent inscriptions depending on the country of purchase.

you are right about Amberol, the boxes are printed in the USA, but this is only for Green Amberol boxes.