Edison Diamond disc machines in the UK?

[Lucius1958]

One question I have which I'm sure Edison experts can answer for me is whether a DD machine can safely play any other Hillandale records without damage to either the record or machine? I'm thinking about the possibility of playing Pathé records in particular, of which I have many.

Unfortunately, no, Steve. The diamond disc machine arms are screw-driven, i.e., their movement is not controlled by the groove, they move at a fixed pace, so they only play records that have a single groove pitch (same concept as Edison cylinder machines). The groove pitch for diamond discs is much denser than the normal Pathé records: 10-inch diamond discs play for up to 4.5 minutes, compared to 3 minutes for Pathés of the same size. This also makes the diamond disc stylus to be much finer than the sapphire that plays Pathé records, it is designed to track finer grooves than the Pathé. The Edison machines can play lateral discs with an adapter soundbox, that has a ball connection to provide lateral freedom of movement that allows the needle to track the groove, but as far as I know there were no such adapters made to play Pathé records.

There are DD adapters that can swivel to play non-Edison verticals (I have one with my C250); so, with the correct stylus, one could play later vertical Pathés - but not the earlier, center-start discs.

- Bill

[52089]

In addition to everything mentioned here, don't forget that the Diamond Disc system was introduced shortly before WWI broke out in Europe, which greatly limited distribution of the phonographs and records there. The Great War also restricted Edison's ability to import high quality materials used in manufacturing the discs, which resulted in poor quality, noisy discs for 2+ years before things started to get better.

[Marco Gilardetti]

The biggest problem for Edison machines, is the selection of music available. Most of it is really nothing I’d want to listen to. Edison controlled everything that was recorded on his records, and had recorded what he liked. I can’t say that he had very interesting or broad taste in music. Here and there you find some gems, but nothing remotely exciting to me.

The story that Edison controlled all recordings is not real - he established strict - and somewhat weird - rules to his technicians as to what should and should not be issued, and did some listen sampling every now and then, but if you account for the enormous number of records Edison issued you will conclude that no single person would be capable to listen and control each issue individually, and Edison certainly had other more important things to do with his time. Moreover, the Edison catalogue is not really much different from that of the major labels of the time, like Victor or Columbia: lots of dance music (waltzes, foxtrots, one-steps, ragtimes etc), marches, light classics, salon music, operatics, vaudeville songs, sentimental songs, popular singers (Billy Murray, Vaughan de Leath, Al Bernard etc), instrumental solos (banjo, concertina, trumpet, piano, cello, violin, xylophone etc), hillbilly songs, and later in the production, even some jazz and blues (Memphis Five, Fletcher Henderson, Frisco Jazz Band, Phil Napoleon, Mamie Smith etc). There was also a full series of foreign music, with German, Mexican, English, Italian, Portuguese and others, dedicated to the immigrant market in the USA. What may create the false impression that Edison recorded music was dull is that its production ended before 1930, while other labels more or less survived to record music that is more familiar to modern ears, but you make the comparison within the production period 1912-1929, there is not really any significant difference other than specific artists that had exclusive contracts, and emphasis that some label placed on specific markets (like the Columbia investment on the blues craze in the 20s).

This may be the most sensible thing I've ever read about the Edison catalogue.

Have to agree in full. Decades of clichés about the edison discography swept away by a dozen of lines.

[CarlosV]

Have to agree in full. Decades of clichés about the edison discography swept away by a dozen of lines.

Grazie, Marco!

[emgcr]

Here is another video showing how an EMG can be made to play both Edison and Pathé discs with a Brunswick Ultona soundbox. The latter is a brilliant piece of design and allows the playing of all three disc types. It also very cleverly incorporates a counterweight--maximum for Edison and minimum for Pathé. A simple brass adaptor is required to join the Ultona to the EMG tonearm having first removed the normal swinging section. Tracking of Edison records is quite reasonable but Pathé slightly less so in spite of rotation of the soundbox head (such a clever design) to allow the sapphire to approach the motor spindle to produce an acceptable overlap. Due to the spherical nature of the ball sapphire, and thus reasonable compliance to the record grooves, good sound is assured and record wear is not a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNj7w3bcI1c Edison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHbLAyMAk40 Pathé

[Marco Gilardetti]

What a terrific attachment! 3-in-1, nearly universal!

Is it a factory-made period product I wonder, or the masterpiece of some skilled gramophone enthusiast?

[CarlosV]

What a terrific attachment! 3-in-1, nearly universal!

Is it a factory-made period product I wonder, or the masterpiece of some skilled gramophone enthusiast?

Marco, the Brunswick Ultona soundbox, including its counterweight, is a standard product, made to cope with all existing record formats of the time. It was made in two formats: lateral+Pathé and the one shown, lateral+Pathé+Edison. But the adaptation gear to the EMG is Graham's conception and execution. It is a very successful solution, and his you tube videos show how well it works.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Very clever indeed! Thanks fot the notes, Carlos!

[emgcr]

Marco, here is a link to the original Brunswick Ultona manual : https://www.nipperhead.com/old/brult.htm

[Marco Gilardetti]

Thank you! What a pity that it's no longer available in all music shops!

Good'ol Nipperhead website... I remember it among the most early websites about gramophones over the internet.