This hornless is for sale in my area. I have no intention of buying it, since I absolutely not don't need another hornless in my storage locker, but I thought it could be interesting to identify it. It is not covered in the HMG book, and it has details that is are not found on any of the early hornless machines covered in the same book.
It has a Victor Exhibition sound box too. I find the label very interesting, I have myself not see this label before. I had to Google, "Natal", and I understand it as a province in South Africa, around Durban, and a former British Colony. The same applies to "Cape Colony" with Cape Town as capitol at that time, named after Cape of Good Hope, today the southern part of South Africa.
Any suggestions on where this hornless was manufactured. Is it German made (DGAG), or can it be from any of the distant colonies? I am not used myself to find Victor Exhibition sound boxes on German manufactured DGAG machines.
About dating, 1911-1915 ?
HMV hornless identification
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Re: HMV hornless identification
British manufacture I would assume as it says ‘His Master’s Voice’ but an export model. Similar to a Zonophone Cinch. Early date because of the lambs tongue moulding.
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Re: HMV hornless identification
Out of curiosity how much are they asking? I agree with Jamie that its likely an export model but is it from Australia / New Zealand, I wonder?nostalgia wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:56 am This hornless is for sale in my area. I have no intention of buying it, since I absolutely not don't need another hornless in my storage locker, but I thought it could be interesting to identify it. It is not covered in the HMG book, and it has details that is are not found on any of the early hornless machines covered in the same book.
It has a Victor Exhibition sound box too. I find the label very interesting, I have myself not see this label before. I had to Google, "Natal", and I understand it as a province in South Africa, around Durban, and a former British Colony. The same applies to "Cape Colony" with Cape Town as capitol at that time, named after Cape of Good Hope, today the southern part of South Africa.
Any suggestions on where this hornless was manufactured. Is it German made (DGAG), or can it be from any of the distant colonies? I am not used myself to find Victor Exhibition sound boxes on German manufactured DGAG machines.
About dating, 1911-1915 ?
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Re: HMV hornless identification
Asking price is € 85. Pick up only, and around 500 km from my place, so not exactly in the neighbourhood.
DGAG manufactured their own cabinets in Germany as I understand it, since they look very different from the UK made cabinets. And India also made their own cabinets, but maybe it was different for South Africa, Australia and New Zealand? IF they had made their own cabinets for some smaller machines, they would still be named "His Master's Voice though.
We had only one Norwegian manufacturer of gramophones in the early 1900s, William Farre. He imported parts from France, and also from Switzerland/Germany, and was a general agent for Pathé in Norway, but the wood cabinets were made in Scandinavia.
The sound box puzzles me, why it is not a "The Gramophone Company Exhibiton" sound box, could it be because it possibly were imported from USA directly, and that parts were imported from different sources caused by scarcity or even WW1, and that the sound box was not a part of a complete export model?
I only think loud, trying to look at alternative solutions, while it very well may be a complete export model, of course...
DGAG manufactured their own cabinets in Germany as I understand it, since they look very different from the UK made cabinets. And India also made their own cabinets, but maybe it was different for South Africa, Australia and New Zealand? IF they had made their own cabinets for some smaller machines, they would still be named "His Master's Voice though.
We had only one Norwegian manufacturer of gramophones in the early 1900s, William Farre. He imported parts from France, and also from Switzerland/Germany, and was a general agent for Pathé in Norway, but the wood cabinets were made in Scandinavia.
The sound box puzzles me, why it is not a "The Gramophone Company Exhibiton" sound box, could it be because it possibly were imported from USA directly, and that parts were imported from different sources caused by scarcity or even WW1, and that the sound box was not a part of a complete export model?
I only think loud, trying to look at alternative solutions, while it very well may be a complete export model, of course...

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Re: HMV hornless identification
In the U.S. I would call that a VV-IV, which most surely is a Victor product. That's what I think it is. The date range the OP guessed is just about right too. Here's a link to a website with more info:
http://www.victor-victrola.com/IV.htm
http://www.victor-victrola.com/IV.htm
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Re: HMV hornless identification
I need to back-pedal. On a second look, I can see several differences in the case. VV-IV has a very plain case with no moulding. Still, it's quite similar to a VV-IV.
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Re: HMV hornless identification
I have one of these, but using an Exhibition Junior soundbox and the cannon brake. Mine has no slats behind the doors.
And yes, mine has an L tonearm, no goose neck.
And yes, mine has an L tonearm, no goose neck.
Last edited by Inigo on Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inigo
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Re: HMV hornless identification
See pages233-4; it is a Zonophone Cinch but with an HMV transfer and a gooseneck tone-arm, so clearly an export model. Early ones had a metal grille behind the doors, later ones wood slats. As shown in HMG, there was a French version which retained the straight tone-arm. What's a French one dong in HMG? Well, it was in such beautiful condition I couldn't resist including it!"