HMV hornless identification

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
Post Reply
User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

HMV hornless identification

Post by nostalgia »

This hornless is for sale in my area. I have no intention of buying it, since I absolutely not don't need another hornless in my storage locker, but I thought it could be interesting to identify it. It is not covered in the HMG book, and it has details that is are not found on any of the early hornless machines covered in the same book.
It has a Victor Exhibition sound box too. I find the label very interesting, I have myself not see this label before. I had to Google, "Natal", and I understand it as a province in South Africa, around Durban, and a former British Colony. The same applies to "Cape Colony" with Cape Town as capitol at that time, named after Cape of Good Hope, today the southern part of South Africa.
Any suggestions on where this hornless was manufactured. Is it German made (DGAG), or can it be from any of the distant colonies? I am not used myself to find Victor Exhibition sound boxes on German manufactured DGAG machines.
About dating, 1911-1915 ?
Attachments
13.jpg
11.jpg
10.jpg
9.jpg
8.jpg
7.jpg

User avatar
jamiegramo
Victor III
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:52 am
Location: St. Albans, UK

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by jamiegramo »

British manufacture I would assume as it says ‘His Master’s Voice’ but an export model. Similar to a Zonophone Cinch. Early date because of the lambs tongue moulding.

User avatar
Steve
Victor VI
Posts: 3765
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:40 pm
Location: London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, New York, Evesham

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by Steve »

nostalgia wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:56 am This hornless is for sale in my area. I have no intention of buying it, since I absolutely not don't need another hornless in my storage locker, but I thought it could be interesting to identify it. It is not covered in the HMG book, and it has details that is are not found on any of the early hornless machines covered in the same book.
It has a Victor Exhibition sound box too. I find the label very interesting, I have myself not see this label before. I had to Google, "Natal", and I understand it as a province in South Africa, around Durban, and a former British Colony. The same applies to "Cape Colony" with Cape Town as capitol at that time, named after Cape of Good Hope, today the southern part of South Africa.
Any suggestions on where this hornless was manufactured. Is it German made (DGAG), or can it be from any of the distant colonies? I am not used myself to find Victor Exhibition sound boxes on German manufactured DGAG machines.
About dating, 1911-1915 ?
Out of curiosity how much are they asking? I agree with Jamie that its likely an export model but is it from Australia / New Zealand, I wonder?

User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by nostalgia »

Asking price is € 85. Pick up only, and around 500 km from my place, so not exactly in the neighbourhood.
DGAG manufactured their own cabinets in Germany as I understand it, since they look very different from the UK made cabinets. And India also made their own cabinets, but maybe it was different for South Africa, Australia and New Zealand? IF they had made their own cabinets for some smaller machines, they would still be named "His Master's Voice though.
We had only one Norwegian manufacturer of gramophones in the early 1900s, William Farre. He imported parts from France, and also from Switzerland/Germany, and was a general agent for Pathé in Norway, but the wood cabinets were made in Scandinavia.
The sound box puzzles me, why it is not a "The Gramophone Company Exhibiton" sound box, could it be because it possibly were imported from USA directly, and that parts were imported from different sources caused by scarcity or even WW1, and that the sound box was not a part of a complete export model?
I only think loud, trying to look at alternative solutions, while it very well may be a complete export model, of course... ;)

jboger
Victor IV
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by jboger »

In the U.S. I would call that a VV-IV, which most surely is a Victor product. That's what I think it is. The date range the OP guessed is just about right too. Here's a link to a website with more info:

http://www.victor-victrola.com/IV.htm

jboger
Victor IV
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:12 pm

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by jboger »

I need to back-pedal. On a second look, I can see several differences in the case. VV-IV has a very plain case with no moulding. Still, it's quite similar to a VV-IV.

User avatar
Inigo
Victor Monarch
Posts: 4448
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by Inigo »

I have one of these, but using an Exhibition Junior soundbox and the cannon brake. Mine has no slats behind the doors.
And yes, mine has an L tonearm, no goose neck.
Last edited by Inigo on Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inigo

Oedipus
Victor II
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:59 am

Re: HMV hornless identification

Post by Oedipus »

See pages233-4; it is a Zonophone Cinch but with an HMV transfer and a gooseneck tone-arm, so clearly an export model. Early ones had a metal grille behind the doors, later ones wood slats. As shown in HMG, there was a French version which retained the straight tone-arm. What's a French one dong in HMG? Well, it was in such beautiful condition I couldn't resist including it!"

Post Reply