Never say never!

[Sidewinder]

Congrats to this person for a largely excellent video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm33KHsHFdY

He did miss one obvious clue on the hexagonal crapophone base - the Philips type screws!

Other misstatement was "no one ever made hexagonal gramophone cabinets........" Yes they did, even 8 sided ones - for example Parlophone!

[Steve]

A completely misleading video!

The person has clearly never seen many original horn gramophones. A sign of a Crapophone is a hinged lid / motorboard? Really? What about the comment that all horn machines were square or rectangular? Rectangular? I thought most were square but there were round and octagonal cases too. But why compare a Crapophone with "HMV" on the front to a "cheap Swiss" machine like the Selecta? As most people will be looking for HMV it surely would have been more appropriate to show an actual HMV machine?

I applaud anyone for taking the time to dissuade people from buying Crapophones but if you're going to make a video, at least get the facts straight first.

[jamiegramo]

I like mrrgstuff’s videos as a whole but agree this video is a little misleading in places.

Hinged motor boards are not uncommon on original machines. Most HMV original horn machines had a hinged motorboard as well as many other manufacturers.

The point should be that HMV ‘never’ made round or octagonal cases so anything with an HMV decal is instantly wrong on these case designs. Original round and octagonal cases by other manufactures are rare and unlikely to be found.

The back bracket he shows is a very commonly copied pattern. The copies are made in aluminium and copied from a cast iron original. Some original back brackets were made in aluminium although not of this pattern.

Original tonearms can also be made of steel, brass and alloy.

The point about the size of the horn being small on crapophones is true but so are some original horns.

I would have pointed out the nasty lead solder joins on both the horn elbow and horns of crapophones.

He did however point out the differences in turntables and brakes.

[epigramophone]

Print this and mount it on your workshop/hobbies room/man cave wall :

[Marco Gilardetti]

The point should be that HMV ‘never’ made round or octagonal cases so anything with an HMV decal is instantly wrong on these case designs. Original round and octagonal cases by other manufactures are rare and unlikely to be found.

Agree in full. Nearly all crap-o-phones have reprinted HMV decals, so the round or octagonal shape shall be an immediate warning sign.

I believe the intention was to point out the most obvious crap-o's "features" to newbies. Then the list of exceptions is nearly infinite, but that is best to be left for a later stage into this hobby.

[mrrgstuff]

I believe the intention was to point out the most obvious crap-o's "features" to newbies. Then the list of exceptions is nearly infinite, but that is best to be left for a later stage into this hobby.

It's my video, so I take the flak. Yes, it was indeed my intention to warn of the perils of the usual fake machines, and as it happens I compared them to a typical Swiss type machine I happened to be looking at.

I see a lot of these fake machines in the wild and have had conversations with potential buyers who assumed they must be genuine as they have never seen anything else.

Yes, I will confess I have seen very few real horn machines. I'd love to have actually had a real HMV or Victor machine to compare against, but I have never seen one in the wild, much less had a chance to buy one (except for possibly at the only UK fair I am aware of, RetroTechUK).

On the other hand I appreciate that's not the viewer's fault and I have clearly been more absolute in my statements than I should have been.

I notice someone has said the video is "completely misleading". Is that the general opinion?
Thanks

[mrrgstuff]

So YouTube doesn't allow me to make arbitrary changes to a published video, but what I have been able to do is remove the references to the hinged lid and 3 vs 4 screw mounting which I appreciate is not a reliable indicator of a fake machine.

I've also updated the description which hopefully makes it clearer, and mentioned that some non HMV machines did have bases of different shapes.

I can't unfortunately add text or voice-over to clarify anything in the video.
Thanks

[Sidewinder]

I like it and agree with what Steve said - every video to educate people about crapo and other franken-messes is a positive contribution.

So thanks for the video!

here the motherload... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWqcnx9vY7U

[jamiegramo]

I notice someone has said the video is "completely misleading". Is that the general opinion?
Thanks

No that isn’t the general opinion. As Sidewinder said ‘a largely excellent video’. And as Marco said ‘it was to point out the most obvious crap-o's "features" to newbies’, which it does. As collectors we tend to nit pick on details, imagining that someone with an original HMV might believe it’s a fake because it has a hinged motor board. That person is more likely to encounter a fake so this detail is largely irrelevant.

Keep making your videos!

Jamie

[jamiegramo]

Print this and mount it on your workshop/hobbies room/man cave wall :

The worst feature of many crapophones isn’t mentioned! The tracking error! Guaranteed to ruin a record on just one playing.