Can I play an Edison diamond disc on a VitaNola without breaking it?

[MisterGramophone]

I have been having the question above for a while as Edison diamond discs have grooves the same size as basic 78s and the VitaNola has a twisting diaphragm to play both lateral and vertical records.

[JerryVan]

Technically, yes, but in reality, probably not. In order to play a diamond disc "properly", you would not only need to adjust the reproducer, you would also need the proper diamond stylus, not just a steel needle. Same story if you want to play a Pathé disc.

I don't know what it is that you're concerned with "breaking". You won't break anything, but you will ruin a Diamond Disc record without a proper stylus.

[drh]

Technically, yes, but in reality, probably not. In order to play a diamond disc "properly", you would not only need to adjust the reproducer, you would also need the proper diamond stylus, not just a steel needle. Same story if you want to play a Pathé disc.

Just to make sure we're being clear, for Pathé you'd need a sapphire ball, not a diamond. But results of playing with a steel needle would be the same: a record promptly destroyed. Vertical cut records on *some* labels were intended to be played with steel needles; Lyric is an example. Edison and Pathé (and the numerous labels that emulated Pathé's groove geometry, like Rishell and American Rex), however, are not among them. Of the two, I'd feel a lot more comfortable playing a Pathé on your machine (if outfitted appropriately with a sapphire ball stylus) than an Edison diamond disc, even with a diamond stylus. That said, in my experience Pathé discs can be fussy to play on non-Pathé machines, even when suitably adapted.

[MisterGramophone]

I have heard that you can play an Edison diamond disc with a modern record needle, is that true?

[drh]

I have heard that you can play an Edison diamond disc with a modern record needle, is that true?

Yes, but for decent results you need to do a couple of things. First, you'll want to rewire your cartridge by swapping the right "hot" and "ground" leads; then, when you set your preamp to "mono," you'll get a monaural vertical cut signal. Playing in stereo will give you ungodly amounts of noise from Edison discs. Playing them in mono without the cartridge lead adjustment will give you nothing but noise, no musical signal. Given how fragile the leads usually are, if you have interchangeable headshells you would do better to get a cartridge to dedicate solely to vertical cut discs and mount it on a separate headshell, then swap headshells when you want to play Edisons.

If your phono preamp doesn't have a "mono" setting, you'll also (call this "thing to do 1A") need to get some sort of outboard unit that adds that feature. I reviewed one a while back that did *not* work with a cartridge as rewired above; stay away from this one: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/sfp_m ... tch_e.html

The second thing you'll want to do is get a stylus designed for diamond discs. Expert Stylus in England can retip stock cantilevers in this way. Obviously, you'll need a separate cantilever/stylus assembly from what you use for LPs. You *can* play diamond discs with LP styli, but a friend who tried it had indifferent results, and I've never had particularly good luck that way, either. By contrast, I have managed pretty fair results with a stylus designed for the task. I would hesitate to play LPs with a stylus that I had used for diamond discs, lest the old record have caused damage to the stylus that would then harm the much more fragile LP grooves. Note that although diamond disc grooves are substantially narrower than those of conventional shellac 78s, they are still wider than LP microgrooves, so a stylus sized for LP grooves will be too small to be a good fit for a diamond disc groove.

Alternatively, Expert can supply you with Shure M44-7 cartridges and appropriate styli, or at least it could as of not too long back. Shure has exited the cartridge business, however, so you'd be limited to whatever stock Expert has on hand--in other words, if Expert has run out, it won't be able to supply you with a Shure cartridge. It may have other options; dunno about that. If you want to buy an inexpensive cartridge, with suitable cantilever for retipping, and send it to Expert yourself, here's one that I reviewed favorably a couple of years ago: https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vessel_78cart_e.html I've actually had a couple of these retipped for my own use playing cylinders, so I now know that Expert can retip them according to your needs.

Aside from the cartridge/stylus, you'll need your turntable to be able to spin at 80 RPM for Edison diamond discs. Make sure yours has a pitch control with enough adjustment. Most modern turntables have little or no user adjustment off their stated center speeds (33.3, 45, 78.26).

One further bit of advice: avoid stylus assemblies that were designed to track LPs at light tracking forces. The assemblies for the cartridge I reviewed go up to 7 grams or so. I think the ones for the Shure that Expert can supply are similarly rated. An assembly that collapses with less than a couple of grams is useless for 78s, especially vertical cut ones.

[MisterGramophone]

Technically, yes, but in reality, probably not. In order to play a diamond disc "properly", you would not only need to adjust the reproducer, you would also need the proper diamond stylus, not just a steel needle. Same story if you want to play a Pathé disc.

Just to make sure we're being clear, for Pathé you'd need a sapphire ball, not a diamond. But results of playing with a steel needle would be the same: a record promptly destroyed. Vertical cut records on *some* labels were intended to be played with steel needles; Lyric is an example. Edison and Pathé (and the numerous labels that emulated Pathé's groove geometry, like Rishell and American Rex), however, are not among them. Of the two, I'd feel a lot more comfortable playing a Pathé on your machine (if outfitted appropriately with a sapphire ball stylus) than an Edison diamond disc, even with a diamond stylus. That said, in my experience Pathé discs can be fussy to play on non-Pathé machines, even when suitably adapted.

Don’t Pathé discs play backwards?

[Marc Hildebrant]

With regard to playing a Diamond Disc using modern technology. The following song is a Diamond Disc record, played with a 0.7 mil conical stylus on a modern turntable. The Stereo cartridge was not rewired.
I did restore the music using software.

Marc

My Blue Heaven.mp3

(9.15 MiB) Downloaded 17 times

[52089]

Technically, yes, but in reality, probably not. In order to play a diamond disc "properly", you would not only need to adjust the reproducer, you would also need the proper diamond stylus, not just a steel needle. Same story if you want to play a Pathé disc.

Just to make sure we're being clear, for Pathé you'd need a sapphire ball, not a diamond. But results of playing with a steel needle would be the same: a record promptly destroyed. Vertical cut records on *some* labels were intended to be played with steel needles; Lyric is an example. Edison and Pathé (and the numerous labels that emulated Pathé's groove geometry, like Rishell and American Rex), however, are not among them. Of the two, I'd feel a lot more comfortable playing a Pathé on your machine (if outfitted appropriately with a sapphire ball stylus) than an Edison diamond disc, even with a diamond stylus. That said, in my experience Pathé discs can be fussy to play on non-Pathé machines, even when suitably adapted.

Don’t Pathé discs play backwards?

Early Pathé discs (with etched labels) play from the inside out; later Pathé discs, both vertical and lateral cuts play from the outside in.

I'll also note that center start Pathé discs generally play at around 90 RPM. It helps to have/make strobe discs for this, or you can buy a cheap, non-contact tachometer on ebay for under $20.

[MisterGramophone]

Just to make sure we're being clear, for Pathé you'd need a sapphire ball, not a diamond. But results of playing with a steel needle would be the same: a record promptly destroyed. Vertical cut records on *some* labels were intended to be played with steel needles; Lyric is an example. Edison and Pathé (and the numerous labels that emulated Pathé's groove geometry, like Rishell and American Rex), however, are not among them. Of the two, I'd feel a lot more comfortable playing a Pathé on your machine (if outfitted appropriately with a sapphire ball stylus) than an Edison diamond disc, even with a diamond stylus. That said, in my experience Pathé discs can be fussy to play on non-Pathé machines, even when suitably adapted.

Don’t Pathé discs play backwards?

Early Pathé discs (with etched labels) play from the inside out; later Pathé discs, both vertical and lateral cuts play from the outside in.

I'll also note that center start Pathé discs generally play at around 90 RPM. It helps to have/make strobe discs for this, or you can buy a cheap, non-contact tachometer on ebay for under $20.

This machine can get to up to 90 rpm.