Genuine Thorens external horn gramophone?

[Baro Bromberger]

Hi, is this an original Thorens machine? Obviously the tone arm and soundbox arent from this, but what about the rest? I'm a bit suspicious of the back bracket, seems quite new. I checked some thorens catalogues, but found nothing quite identical. Thanks in advance

[jamiegramo]

I don’t recognise the back bracket as a commonly reproduced pattern. That said it looks kind of new and the screws (rather than bolts) holding it to the case are not usual. Along with the Plano Reflex tonearm end and the 2 screws fixing the horn to the elbow this appears to be a frankenphone made up of old parts. The horn looks like it’s been filled round the edge, car body filler on rust damage? The front columns which do not go round the corners and are not found on the back suggest the base may have been a hornless model.

[Baro Bromberger]

Thanks!

[JerryVan]

Machines like this show up somewhat often. In a lot of cases, they tend to defy explanation as to their origins. "Frankenphone", as Jamie suggests, is one possibility. Here in the USA, many collectors just use the word "European" when all other insight fails them. (Better than saying "I don't know", I suppose ) I sometimes tend to think that they were made in small, local shops, using vendor supplied components of various brands and quality. My belief is that this was done in the latter days of outside horn phonographs, or even well past that era, (maybe the 30's - 50's). Hence, your later era Thorens motor paired with other components of uncertain, unrelated origin. I guess that maybe defines the term frankenphone. That's not to suggest that it was made 5 or 10 years ago, or that it's the lowest of the low: a Crapophone.

[Sidewinder]

At first glance I thought it was a converted tabletop as one sees here at the 3rs set of pictures - the HMV tabletop conversion

https://www.royalimperialbs.com/frankenphone.htm

However looking at the pictures I think your cabinet with motor is legit. The horn is stunningly nice. The back bracket is also not the usual Indian casting, and the tone arm seems to be correct up to the first bend. Does the needle in the soundbox meet the center of the Turntable? If not then the columbia addition is the piece that is wrong. If it does, then different original pieces have been wrongly built together.

[Sidewinder]

And not to forget : Thorens built many different mechanical components that enabled other companies to build heir own machines.