VV2-55 Arm Question -- Felt Washer Under Ball Bearing Spacer

[Lah Ca]

I apologize for this being a duplicate post of sorts. I am just trying to gather more thoughts/opinions about something I found while disassembling a VV2-55 tone arm, and a post focused on this single issue might be more effective as the original post wanders organically here and there as these things can often do.

Under the ball bearing spacer in the ball race cup, I found a thin felt washer. It was thoroughly impregnated with grease. My seemingly later VV2-55 did not appear to have this washer.

See image from other post: download/file.php?id=209989&t=1

It does not seem that the (broken) arm support bracket had ever before been separated from the ball race cup; there was no visible evidence of this anyway.

Does anyone know if the felt washer is original?

JerryVan is of the opinion that I should not put it back. It is a bit ragged. And perhaps it is not necessary as it appears to have been omitted in a later model (if indeed it is an original thing).

I will probably start to reassemble an arm in a few days (waiting for paint to cure), and it would be interesting to know if anyone else has ever encountered such a washer in a VV2-55 tone arm assembly.

[JerryVan]

I'll revise my previous advice slightly to state that if the inside diameter of the felt ring does not lie within the path of the balls, and if the thickness of the felt is not so much that it causes drag on the base of the tone arm, then it probably does no harm and may even hold grease that acts as a joint sealant.

As you are, I'm also interested to see if others have found the same piece of felt in their machines.

[AmberolaAndy]

I didn’t use a felt washer in mine but it seems to be working just fine!

[Lah Ca]

I didn’t use a felt washer in mine but it seems to be working just fine!

But did you find one or the remnants of one when you dismantled the broken arm?

[AmberolaAndy]

I didn’t use a felt washer in mine but it seems to be working just fine!

But did you find one or the remnants of one when you dismantled the broken arm?

Not really. But then again I cheated and bought a pre-dismantled arm…

[Lah Ca]

If it were mine, I'd omit the felt washer. It can only serve to impede the free rolling of the bearings.

I'll revise my previous advice slightly to state that if the inside diameter of the felt ring does not lie within the path of the balls, and if the thickness of the felt is not so much that it causes drag on the base of the tone arm, then it probably does no harm and may even hold grease that acts as a joint sealant.

As you are, I'm also interested to see if others have found the same piece of felt in their machines.

I tried assembling the arm both with and without the felt washer.

The movement of the arm was definitely quieter with the washer in place, but then the arm was only ever noisy (without the washer) if I moved it back and forth at a much faster speed than playing a record would do. Moving the arm without the washer in place at about the same speed record play would do made no noise at all.

And in its present mangled condition, the washer could not be placed so that it did not interfere with the ball bearings, so in the end I left it out.

The machine from 1928 had a felt washer in it. The machine from 1929 did not. Was the washer original? Was it a repair person's or home user's modification? Perhaps we will never know.

[Lucius1958]

I would second Jerry's opinion, that it would be used to seal the joint between tone arm and horn. I did something similar with my Edison P-1, and I think it improves the sound.

You could try cutting a replacement of proper size, greasing and installing it, and see whether there's any benefit.

- Bill

[MarkELynch]

The felt gasket is an original part and when coated with grease it seals the area between the bottom of the Taper Tube assembly and the entrance to the horn. It is not in contact with the five bearings. Speaking of grease, I would recommend a much lighter coating on the balls as heavy grease will prevent the easy rotation of the Taper Tube in the support and this will lead to record wear, plus, the grease will stiffen with time and exacerbate the issue.

Below is the 2-55 part listing showing the felt gasket and also the specs for the felt gasket. If you had a penny and a Wayback machine you could go get a spare.

Mark

[Lah Ca]

The felt gasket is an original part and when coated with grease it seals the area between the bottom of the Taper Tube assembly and the entrance to the horn. It is not in contact with the five bearings. Speaking of grease, I would recommend a much lighter coating on the balls as heavy grease will prevent the easy rotation of the Taper Tube in the support and this will lead to record wear, plus, the grease will stiffen with time and exacerbate the issue.

Below is the 2-55 part listing showing the felt gasket and also the specs for the felt gasket. If you had a penny and a Wayback machine you could go get a spare.

Mark
IMG_5426.jpeg
IMG_5427.jpeg

Thank you again.

There is also the composite cork gasket between the ball race cup and the motor board. But without reference to this actual item in hand, I would guess that this composite gasket's dimensions are larger than those given above for the felt one. So the ragged felt one in my machine is probably original then. There is probably a different part number for the composite gasket.

My earlier VV2-55 was made in 1928. My other one was made in 1929. As I have said elsewhere, the later one seems comparatively shoddy, but only comparatively and not absolutely--the later machines are still very nice.

It seems as if efforts were made to cut manufacturing costs with the later ones. The use of rivets rather than screws is quite extensive. The record holder seems more poorly assembled. The finishing touches are less complex, less deluxe looking. Perhaps the omission of the felt washer in the later machine was also a cost cutting measure.

Or perhaps all these measures were only intended to speed up production in an effort to keep up with demand, and any cost cutting was of secondary concern. The machines (any of them) in like new condition perform spectacularly well for portables, better than many cabinet machines from Victor's rivals, and in comparison to cabinet machines, they were quite affordable and versatile. In their day, they were major hot ticket items, one of (RCA) Victor's best selling machines ever.

The one thing on my 1929 machine that I think is an improvement is the platter mounting. On my 1928 machine, the platter engages less securely with the motor shaft, and without the retention C clip (and composite cardboard/celluloid washer) in place on the platter, the torque from the motor would cause the platter to jump and wobble rather than spin. On the 1929 machine the platter spindle is a threaded separate piece, which screws into the motor shaft. There is also a metal washer to help secure things. And the platter engages much more securely with the motor shaft--the recesses in the platter for the cross rod of the motor shaft are deeper.

[Lah Ca]

Hmmm....

I was wrong.

I dug out the composite cork gasket that I salvaged from my 1929 machine and measured it. Its measurements exactly match those of part number, 21262PF, the gasket listed above. This gasket forms the seal between the base of the arm assembly and the motor board.

The diameter of the felt washer/gasket found under the bearing spacer in my 1928 machine is closer in size to the spacer, much smaller than 21262PF.

So back to the questions:

Was the washer original? Was it a repair person's or home user's modification? Perhaps we will never know.