Looking for advice: Fair price for an Edison Standard with Model K reproducer?

[Aristophane]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to expand my small collection. Currently, I own an Edison Amberola and a Spring Motor (the latter needs a bit of a tune-up). I have quite a few 2-minute and 4-minute cylinders that I’d love to enjoy more regularly.

I have been looking at several Edison Standard models lately, specifically those equipped with a Model K reproducer (as the 2/4 minute combination is very appealing to me). I’ve seen a few listings on auction sites, but I am wary of paying double the actual market value.

What would you consider a fair price for a Standard in good working order with a Model K and a basic horn? Are there specific things I should check regarding the Model K (beyond the stylus condition) to avoid a 'money pit'?

Any guidance on current values would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

Jean

[phonogfp]

I couldn't hazard a guess on values in France, but just be aware that a Model K Reproducer alone will not enable 2- and 4-minute play. The machine must be equipped with a gear-changing mechanism as well.

The APS maintains a public price guide on its website. The "Edison" section does not distinguish between 2-minute and 4-minute capability, but generally this comprises a difference of about $100 USD in my neck of the woods. Here's the price guide (scroll down for the "Edison" section:

https://apsblobdeve.blob.core.windows.n ... Public.pdf

If you're an APS member, click the "Member Resources" button for the advanced price guide which discusses 2/4-minute capability and various reproducers/horns.

Best of luck with your search!

George P.

[FellowCollector]

If you're looking for a 2/4 minute Edison cylinder phonograph with a 2/4 minute K reproducer I would highly recommend an Edison Fireside model A versus an Edison Standard. The Fireside model A was an extremely well designed, wonderful playing cylinder phonograph and it has no problems with the seized mandrel (due to the swollen pot metal mandrel shaft bearing) as is often found with Edison Standard models C through F that have not had the bearing replaced or repaired. The Fireside A is often found with its factory released model K reproducer also. Expect to pay an honest price for a good condition Edison Fireside model A with K reproducer but you'll thank yourself for the investment later.

Doug

[Aristophane]

I couldn't hazard a guess on values in France, but just be aware that a Model K Reproducer alone will not enable 2- and 4-minute play. The machine must be equipped with a gear-changing mechanism as well.

The APS maintains a public price guide on its website. The "Edison" section does not distinguish between 2-minute and 4-minute capability, but generally this comprises a difference of about $100 USD in my neck of the woods. Here's the price guide (scroll down for the "Edison" section:

https://apsblobdeve.blob.core.windows.n ... Public.pdf

If you're an APS member, click the "Member Resources" button for the advanced price guide which discusses 2/4-minute capability and various reproducers/horns.

Best of luck with your search!

George P.

Hi George,

Thank you very much for these critical clarifications! I had indeed overlooked the necessity of the gear-changing mechanism in addition to the Model K Reproducer to ensure 2 and 4-minute versatility. This is a vital technical detail that completely changes my approach to compatibility.

I also appreciate you sharing the APS Price Guide. It is an incredibly helpful resource for calibrating my budget, even accounting for market variations here in France.
I’m going to dive into the guide and further investigate the specific conversion kits required for my setup.

Thanks again for your expertise and for pointing me in the right direction!

Jean

[Aristophane]

If you're looking for a 2/4 minute Edison cylinder phonograph with a 2/4 minute K reproducer I would highly recommend an Edison Fireside model A versus an Edison Standard. The Fireside model A was an extremely well designed, wonderful playing cylinder phonograph and it has no problems with the seized mandrel (due to the swollen pot metal mandrel shaft bearing) as is often found with Edison Standard models C through F that have not had the bearing replaced or repaired. The Fireside A is often found with its factory released model K reproducer also. Expect to pay an honest price for a good condition Edison Fireside model A with K reproducer but you'll thank yourself for the investment later.

Doug

Thank you Doug for these valuable insights. The Fireside Model A indeed seems like the ideal choice, even if it is proving more difficult to track down in top condition.
I had actually spotted an Edison Standard Model D (with the 2/4 minute equipment and the K reproducer Georges mentioned) on a US auction site. However, your warning regarding the mandrel shaft bearing is crucial. I was unaware that Edison models specifically suffered from this issue, but it sadly echoes our experience with Pathé phonographs.
A large number of our French models were decimated by the "pot metal disease" (zamac). It is a scourge we are all too familiar with: the metal oxidizes, swells, and eventually seizes or shatters the mechanisms. Knowing that the Fireside avoids this design flaw in the mandrel bearing is a strong argument that justifies the extra investment.
I am now hesitating to purchase the Standard mentioned above; do all Standards suffer from this problem?
The auctions end tomorrow during the day, but it is already late in Paris. As they say, la nuit porte conseil.

[Aristophane]

If you're looking for a 2/4 minute Edison cylinder phonograph with a 2/4 minute K reproducer I would highly recommend an Edison Fireside model A versus an Edison Standard. The Fireside model A was an extremely well designed, wonderful playing cylinder phonograph and it has no problems with the seized mandrel (due to the swollen pot metal mandrel shaft bearing) as is often found with Edison Standard models C through F that have not had the bearing replaced or repaired. The Fireside A is often found with its factory released model K reproducer also. Expect to pay an honest price for a good condition Edison Fireside model A with K reproducer but you'll thank yourself for the investment later.

Doug

Thank you Doug for these valuable insights. The Fireside Model A indeed seems like the ideal choice, even if it is proving more difficult to track down in top condition.
I had actually spotted an Edison Standard Model D (with the 2/4 minute equipment and the K reproducer Georges mentioned) on a US auction site. However, your warning regarding the mandrel shaft bearing is crucial. I was unaware that Edison models specifically suffered from this issue, but it sadly echoes our experience with Pathé phonographs.
A large number of our French models were decimated by the "pot metal disease" (zamac). It is a scourge we are all too familiar with: the metal oxidizes, swells, and eventually seizes or shatters the mechanisms. Knowing that the Fireside avoids this design flaw in the mandrel bearing is a strong argument that justifies the extra investment.
I am now hesitating to purchase the Standard mentioned above; do all Standards suffer from this problem?
The auctions end tomorrow during the day, but it is already late in Paris. As they say, la nuit porte conseil.

Insomnia has kept me up, and it’s getting quite late. Here are a few shots of the machine for your expert eyes; I'm not sure if I can spot any pot metal disease here. What do you think?

[FellowCollector]

Hello Jean, The Edison Standard model D that you pictured looks very nice. And all you would need to do is assure that the mandrel rotates very freely. If the mandrel does rotate on the mandrel shaft very freely then I'd say you're good with this one. Not all Edison Standard models C through F were afflicted with the swollen pot metal bearing - but many of these models were. The gear cover on the one in the pictures does not appear to be original. Original Edison Standard D (through F) gear covers had twin gold striping. This one is either reproduction or may be an original that has been repainted and left without stripes. Hard to tell from the picture. Good luck!

[Aristophane]

Hello Jean, The Edison Standard model D that you pictured looks very nice. And all you would need to do is assure that the mandrel rotates very freely. If the mandrel does rotate on the mandrel shaft very freely then I'd say you're good with this one. Not all Edison Standard models C through F were afflicted with the swollen pot metal bearing - but many of these models were. The gear cover on the one in the pictures does not appear to be original. Original Edison Standard D (through F) gear covers had twin gold striping. This one is either reproduction or may be an original that has been repainted and left without stripes. Hard to tell from the picture. Good luck!

Thank you Doug! The bids are already at $645 and there are three hours left. It looks like there's a battle between two bidders driving up the price, which is never a good thing. Considering that it will cost almost $200 to ship it to France, not including customs and VAT, it's starting to add up. I think I'll follow your advice and wait for a nice Fireside (if I have to pay all these fees, I might as well avoid any nasty surprises with a mandrel problem

[drh]

You might also consider looking for an Edison Standard model B or Home model B that has been retrofitted with 2/4 gearing. The B models had an end gate, not the open-mandrel design that involves that pesky pot metal bearing. Also, the Standard B, at least, is extremely common, which should keep the price down. Personally, I would prefer a Model O reproducer--preferably with the trimmed-down, trowel-shaped weight--to a K, just because it's easier to switch between 2 and 4 and harder to get mixed up and pick the wrong one. That, of course, will mean a horizontal carrier eye and probably a cygnet horn, which may get pricey, but at least that's the setup I have (Triumph B, trowel-weight O, cygnet horn), and it's served me well.

How do you size up the audio performance of Edison vs. Pathé cylinder machines? I have very limited experience with the latter, which just don't turn up all that often in the U.S., but neither of the ones I've had (both low-end models) sounded anything like as good as any Edison of my acquaintance.

[Couch Potato]

Getting a 2/4 minute machine that has either a H or a C with it already and getting one or the other later can be a strategy instead of having a K. Using the C or the H also help you know which is in the machine. As other mentioned with the K you have remember how you left it set the last time it was used which usually means you pull it out to check first.....