Neolite / Neophone Sound-Box

[Sidewinder]

There were 2 types of Neophone reproducer, one for sapphire for white vertical cut records, and the other that could also take normal needles.

Also, Neophone records were not the first vertical cut, Disc graphophone toy records and Stollwerck already used vertical cut.

from 1904 Neophone advertised heavily, many adverts alluding to the fact that their system was immensely popular so much so that Neophone discs and machines were flying off shelves at a tremendous rate*, and production could not keep up with the massive demand. This probably influenced Pathé to use the same system from 1906.

*Shocker , they were not. Neophone went bust in 1907.

[poodling around]

There were 2 types of Neophone reproducer, one for sapphire for white vertical cut records, and the other that could also take normal needles.

Also, Neophone records were not the first vertical cut, Disc graphophone toy records and Stollwerck already used vertical cut.

from 1904 Neophone advertised heavily, many adverts alluding to the fact that their system was immensely popular so much so that Neophone discs and machines were flying off shelves at a tremendous rate*, and production could not keep up with the massive demand. This probably influenced Pathé to use the same system from 1906.

*Shocker , they were not. Neophone went bust in 1907.

Wow !!!

Fantastic information !

I also now know I could use mine with a steel needle or thorn needle !

Thank you so VERY much for up-loading this information !

[jamiegramo]

I wish I could help, but the 'sapphire point' container end cap (as shown 'above') is all I have. I suppose it does show that they were still called a 'point' ...........

Maybe in the future ? I wouldn't bet my socks on it but who knows .....

It is little consolation but I attach 3 more photographs 'below' showing the 'chuck' (being round). the sound-box reverse side and how the sound-box would have been displayed in the box originally (the red, plush material was previously up-side down and hidden from me previously.

Thanks for the photos, they show that the adapters belong to the soundbox. A nice set to survive.

It is interesting that the advertisement provided by Sidewinder says that Neolite records can be played with either sapphire or needle. I wouldn’t play Pathé vertical cut records with a needle.

[poodling around]

I wish I could help, but the 'sapphire point' container end cap (as shown 'above') is all I have. I suppose it does show that they were still called a 'point' ...........

Maybe in the future ? I wouldn't bet my socks on it but who knows .....

It is little consolation but I attach 3 more photographs 'below' showing the 'chuck' (being round). the sound-box reverse side and how the sound-box would have been displayed in the box originally (the red, plush material was previously up-side down and hidden from me previously.

Thanks for the photos, they show that the adapters belong to the soundbox. A nice set to survive.

It is interesting that the advertisement provided by Sidewinder says that Neolite records can be played with either sapphire or needle. I wouldn’t play Pathé vertical cut records with a needle.

Thanks Jamiegramo for confirming that. They do 'click' into the back nicely.

A great observation about the Neolite records and playing them with a needle.

Again, I don't know the answer to this.

I am not saying that this definitely applies here, but I find there are some instances of factual inaccuracy / myth in the 'gramophone world' which are accepted as 'truths' and so much otherwise that we don't really know.

Very interesting stuff indeed !

[Dulcetto]

As mentioned by Sidewinder , Neophone were not the first vertical cut disc records. This claim is often seen in print , indeed one well known ebay seller who sometimes offers Neophone records always states that claim , even though I have diplomatically pointed out his error.
The small Stollwerck discs date from 1903 and Columbia were offering their Toy Graphophone with vertical cut discs in the year 1900.

[poodling around]

As mentioned by Sidewinder , Neophone were not the first vertical cut disc records. This claim is often seen in print , indeed one well known ebay seller who sometimes offers Neophone records always states that claim , even though I have diplomatically pointed out his error.
The small Stollwerck discs date from 1903 and Columbia were offering their Toy Graphophone with vertical cut discs in the year 1900.

Very interesting indeed and although I don't have any personal knowledge of the example you have given, it otherwise seems to relate well in terms of 'gramophone myths / claims' ...

[poodling around]

DRH and jamiegramo raised these two very interesting questions:

1. In light of the label "sapphire point," I'm wondering: Did the records have the same sort of "sapphire ball" type groove as Pathé discs? I'd always thought Pathé originated that geometry, but if Neophone used it first, I guess Pathé simply would have popularized it.

2. It is interesting that the advertisement provided by Sidewinder says that Neolite records can be played with either sapphire or needle. I wouldn’t play Pathé vertical cut records with a needle.

I found the patent for this sound-box and may have the answers.

Here is the link:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/ ... q=neophone

and the patent to look at is the 4th one down: 'GB190607472A Improvements in and Apparatus for Sound Reproducing Machines' (I think that you will then have to click on 'Bibliographic data' to reveal a list of options which includes 'description' to again click on).

I can't be sure but this is my current understanding. Again, I may have mis-understood.

Question 1.

The patent description states:

'This invention provides a new and improved method of reproducing records which have been recorded on the Edison phonograph system with a hill and dale cut or track. Such records have hitherto been reproduced only by means: of a diaphragm fitted with a pointer consisting of a round pointed sapphire ur similar hard material'.

I notice that it says 'fitted with a pointer consisting of a round pointed sapphire'.

So, I think it was probably some kind of sapphire ball because of the wording - it seems a sapphire 'ball' can also be a 'point' ?

Question 2.

The patent description states that:

'This invention provides a new and improved method of reproducing records which have been recorded on the Edison phonograph system with a hill and dale cut or track. Such records have hitherto been reproduced only by means: of a diaphragm fitted with a pointer consisting of a round pointed sapphire ur similar hard material'.

and:

'No means has been discovered until the present invention of reproducing Edison phonograph or hill and dale cut records by means of a needle or fine sapphire point fitted at the edge of the diaphragm to a connecting bar as in the case of the Berliner records'.

So, it seems that 'Neophone' are indeed saying that this sound-box can use steel needles to play hill and dale records.

How it does this seems to simply be by designing a sound-box which can be used at an angle of 45 degrees.

It does say however:

By employing a sapphire point this method can be used for repro- ducing records made with an Edison phonograph track upon wax, enamelled cardboard, papier mach or similar materials which are softer and less expensive and which do not permit of the use of a needle.

As I say, this is my understanding so far. I would appreciate some-one having a look at the patent description and giving a second opinion.

Very interesting indeed !

[Sidewinder]

Here a picture of the first style sapphire type reproducer

[poodling around]

Here a picture of the first style sapphire type reproducer

Very interesting to see this.

Incidentally, there is a patent for this reproducer as well if you click on the link in my previous comment (above) which you might like to see.