Sonora Queen Anne in range

[AZ*]

Maybe someone can start a thread about a burl-walnut, lowboy art-model off-brand machine.

[Starkton]

The term "off-brand" has a double meaning:
1. A brand or name that is unrecognized or relatively unfamiliar.
2. A cheap or inferior brand.

Fuel of this, ultimately fruitless, debate is where you put the emphasis.

For me, "off-brands" like Sonora, Brunswick, etc. are "relatively unfamiliar", compared with Edison, Victor, Pathé, Columbia and the Gramophone Co. Furthermore, I personally rate them "inferior" because they contributed less to the development of the talking machine - and literally nothing to the period 1877-1914 I am interested in.

Other collectors have a different view, a position I can totally understand.

[gramophoneshane]

Maybe someone can start a thread about a burl-walnut, lowboy art-model off-brand machine.

Yeah, and for an added laugh we could throw in the hanging of witches too

[Edisone]

Sad when an ego gets in the way of pleasant discourse, but some guys simply MUST be right, to be happy.

[1923VictorFan]

Did someone say "witches"?
Down here in The Arkansas-Missouri Ozark Mountains we have lots of witches but we don't burn-em no more. We just drag'em outa the trailer park and on down to the church were Brother Cecil casts out their demons. We talk in tongues for a while and then just go on home.

[De Soto Frank]

In the world of antique automobiles, there was a term used for the type of automobile or truck that was constructed from components made entirely by third parties: they were referred to as "assembled cars"... some of them fairly high-end and well-regarded. A few truck manufacturers actually bragged that their vehicles were "built from proven units made by these manufacturers" and framed the advertising copy with the names of the various component mfrs: "Borg & Beck Clutch", "Brown & Lipe Transmission", "Fedders Radiator", "Timken Rear Axle", "Continental Engine", etc.

Some of these vehicle "manufacturers" actually did their own engineering and design, and had compenents built to their design specifications ( thinking of Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg ,who had their engine designs actually manufactured by Lycoming Engines, in Williamsport, Penna )... others just kind of threw a vehicle together from "stock" parts.

Results varied...

Perhaps a "new" term worthy of consideration would be "assembled machine" ?

In my little part of the world,NE United States, any time the word "off" was used in a descriptive fashion, it usually meant something less than favorable - as in: "This milk is off, better throw it out"...


Be that as it may...

[Retrograde]

Maybe someone can start a thread about a burl-walnut, lowboy art-model off-brand machine.

...does it have the biggest metal horn ever made? (and none of that wooden packing crate horn crap).

[estott]

Here's a video that shows an off-brand machine which plays very well indeed. In this case it's marked "FOX" but I've seen this case style with a variety of names. The hardware is generic, but the performance is nice.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rTSjwFq5po[/youtube]

[VintageTechnologies]

Here's a video that shows an off-brand machine which plays very well indeed. In this case it's marked "FOX" but I've seen this case style with a variety of names. The hardware is generic, but the performance is nice.

Pretty wood! Was the stepped tone arm an attempt to skirt around Victor's tapered tone arm patents? I wonder if Fox was sued by Victor over that?

I think I heard Billy Murray in there.

[estott]

The stepped tone arm was indeed to get around the Victor patents- I think Victor let some of these pass as they were more interested in going after the more direct clones- arms which incorporated not only tapers but goosenecks and which copied the Exhibition soundbox as well. I think the case was by some Grand Rapids supplier who sold it to a number of different companies as I've seen it with different names (like Mandel). You're right- the oak veneer is nicely matched and of better than average quality- the machine was probably not expensive but had the appearance of being more expensive.

Yes, that's Billy Murray in the quartette- he freelanced quite a bit.